Possible timing problem

[Rigosaurusrex]

I have the engine code 'p0016 crankshaft position - camshaft position correlation bank 1 sensor A' which usually relates to timing. The car came with this code but had a terribly damaged water pump which would have loosened the belt somewhat. I replaced the water pump and lined up the timing marks.

The code still exists and the car runs poorly at certain revs/ speeds (vibration) and is thirsty. Doing some research I think I didn't load the exhaust cam spring properly so even though the mark is aligned the cam could be a tooth or 2 off.

If that is the case, to retime it do I need to buy a cam lock? Or, can I load it by turning the cam anticlockwise then clockwise or vice versa to get the desired timing without a cam lock?


Thanks

Rigs

[abscate]

It’s important to get the variable valve timing cam hubs tensioned the right way when you put the belt on, that involves turning the belt past the marks 1/2 turn on the cam then returning to the marks aligned.

[jonesg]

I have the engine code 'p0016 crankshaft position - camshaft position correlation bank 1 sensor A' which usually relates to timing. The car came with this code but had a terribly damaged water pump which would have loosened the belt somewhat. I replaced the water pump and lined up the timing marks.

The code still exists and the car runs poorly at certain revs/ speeds (vibration) and is thirsty. Doing some research I think I didn't load the exhaust cam spring properly so even though the mark is aligned the cam could be a tooth or 2 off.

If that is the case, to retime it do I need to buy a cam lock? Or, can I load it by turning the cam anticlockwise then clockwise or vice versa to get the desired timing without a cam lock?


Thanks

Rigs

shouldn't need the cam lock unless you plan to pull the cam sprockets off.
See this.

[Rigosaurusrex]

It’s important to get the variable valve timing cam hubs tensioned the right way when you put the belt on, that involves turning the belt past the marks 1/2 turn on the cam then returning to the marks aligned.

Thanks for the reply. I will be giving this a crack today or tomorrow again.

Just to be clear do I turn the VVT cam 1/2 turn clockwise past the mark then return it anticlockwise? Also as shown in the video by jonesg (thanks jonesg) should it be returned about a tooth or more behind the mark then tensioned to the mark when the belt is put on.

Thanks

[abscate]

It’s important to get the variable valve timing cam hubs tensioned the right way when you put the belt on, that involves turning the belt past the marks 1/2 turn on the cam then returning to the marks aligned.

Thanks for the reply. I will be giving this a crack today or tomorrow again.

Just to be clear do I turn the VVT cam 1/2 turn clockwise past the mark then return it anticlockwise? Also as shown in the video by jonesg (thanks jonesg) should it be returned about a tooth or more behind the mark then tensioned to the mark when the belt is put on. S

Thanks

Correct on both. If you are off by a tooth you will get a cam flank error code in the restart , after your first start. No damage from being two or three teeth off. If you have a code reader that reads cam flank angles, you can use those readings to correct it in one step.

There is a detailed thread on this in the P80 forum

[jonesg]

It’s important to get the variable valve timing cam hubs tensioned the right way when you put the belt on, that involves turning the belt past the marks 1/2 turn on the cam then returning to the marks aligned.

Thanks for the reply. I will be giving this a crack today or tomorrow again.

Just to be clear do I turn the VVT cam 1/2 turn clockwise past the mark then return it anticlockwise? Also as shown in the video by jonesg (thanks jonesg) should it be returned about a tooth or more behind the mark then tensioned to the mark when the belt is put on.

Thanks

Rotate fwd then roll it back 90 degs to the timing mark was the directions I got.
By rotate he's talking about the crankshaft.

To be clear, when installing the belt on the exh sprocket, rotate the sprocket to the timing mark, no offset,
See the 7:30 mark of the video.
you want it bang on the mark. Thats why its better to transfer the mark from the plastic cover to the valve cover, easier to see with the plastic cover out of the way.

[Rigosaurusrex]

Cheers for the help guys,

Gave it a crack today. Was running ok with no code until my 2nd trip, then the code came back. It's definitely running better, it still has the vibration at certain points but it is less pronounced and the fuel efficiency has improved but is still not optimal.

I will give it another go tomorrow or the next day, if that doesn't work I think I will take it to the mechanic.

One thing I noticed was that the spring-loaded exhaust sprocket didn't spring back when moved forward a tooth or two into the advanced position as what happens in the video.

Just in case anyone sees this and I am doing something wrong I will post my method below.
1. Rotate crank with timing belt on to the alignment marks on all pulleys.
2. Release the tensioner.
3. Remove belt from exhaust pulley.
4. Rotate exhaust 90degree forward (clockwise).
5. Rotate exhaust back (anti-clockwise) to a few teeth before alignment lines up.
6. Move the exhaust sprocket to the end of its free movement range (clockwise) so that it aligns to the mark and install the belt.


I feel my timing was pretty good so maybe it could be one of the following?
1. Spring loaded exhaust pulley faulty (not springing back or loading)
2. Pulley is not aligned right to the cam. (might need to cam lock and start that process)
3. Could just be a faulty sensor (cam or crank) that would be throwing the code and causing poor performance.

Cheers
Rigs

[jonesg]

Cheers for the help guys,

Gave it a crack today. Was running ok with no code until my 2nd trip, then the code came back. It's definitely running better, it still has the vibration at certain points but it is less pronounced and the fuel efficiency has improved but is still not optimal.

I will give it another go tomorrow or the next day, if that doesn't work I think I will take it to the mechanic.

One thing I noticed was that the spring-loaded exhaust sprocket didn't spring back when moved forward a tooth or two into the advanced position as what happens in the video.

Just in case anyone sees this and I am doing something wrong I will post my method below.
1. Rotate crank with timing belt on to the alignment marks on all pulleys.
2. Release the tensioner.
3. Remove belt from exhaust pulley.
4. Rotate exhaust 90degree forward (clockwise).
5. Rotate exhaust back (anti-clockwise) to a few teeth before alignment lines up.
6. Move the exhaust sprocket to the end of its free movement range (clockwise) so that it aligns to the mark and install the belt.


I feel my timing was pretty good so maybe it could be one of the following?
1. Spring loaded exhaust pulley faulty (not springing back or loading)
2. Pulley is not aligned right to the cam. (might need to cam lock and start that process)
3. Could just be a faulty sensor (cam or crank) that would be throwing the code and causing poor performance.

Cheers
Rigs

setup on step 1 is still wrong.
Rotate crank beyond mark by 90 degs, then roll it back to the timing mark.
Then remove belt.

Not all cvvt are spring loaded .

[Herkko]

What is the purpose of the 90 degs over rotating and then rolling back? I have seen this instruction before but not the reason for it.

[jonesg]

What is the purpose of the 90 degs over rotating and then rolling back? I have seen this instruction before but not the reason for it.

to remove cam hub float.
cvvt cam sprockets are free play withing certain degrees.
Rotating fwd , then backward takes up that float tolerance and holds them against the N stop.

It seems counter intuitive , if the timing belt is holding everything in time ..
nothing can move but the tensioner allows for plenty of play.