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SOLVED! 98 V70, Post PCV job, cranks but no start Topic is solved

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stickinthemud
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SOLVED! 98 V70, Post PCV job, cranks but no start

Post by stickinthemud »

Hello all. First post here but very appreciative of all the help I've gotten thus far from reading your posts. This might be a bit of a long intro post, partly because it will help me think through what I've done thus far and also maybe it'll give you the clue to my problem that I haven't been able to figure out yet! If you don't want to read the whole thing, here's a TLDR:

Did PCV job, now car cranks but doesn't start. Vacuum/electrical connections look good (to my eyes), there is spark, there is fuel. Help greatly appreciated :D

Background:
I've owned this car for about 1.5 years. Its run really well until recently. Has some electrical/minor quirks. Sometimes the ABS issue pops up. Only done a few minor things to it since I've had it. About 2 months ago, was driving on middle lane of highway during rush hour when suddenly the thing starts misfiring and before I know it car is stalled and I'm stuck in the middle lane with cars speeding by! It would start but just stall again. Codes were all misfire codes. Once engine had cooled it started up just fine and drove. Had it towed to shop who couldn't even get it misfiring, but started with plugs/wires/cap/rotor which needed to be done anyways as general maintenance. It ran well at first, but would start misfiring at times though not stalling. Back at shop they kept seeing clear condensation in cap + new oil leak and determined that PCV system was likely culprit. Should note this is a volvo/euro car specialty shop so they're on pricey side but they know their stuff. They quoted me $1000, and since I had some free time around now, access to my friend's shop space, and lots of excellent tutorials available I figured I'd give it a go.

Also relevant background, I'm not a mechanic but am technically inclined. I've mostly worked on small engines and motorcycles and done minor car repair (ie brakes) so this is definitely the biggest car thing I've attempted. My buddy is a metal worker with some extra shop space (and tools) I can use this week. Another friend is nearby and is an auto mechanic who can help me a bit with advice/specialty tools, though his experience is more with big diesel stuff.

PCV Job:
I used the Robert DIY and FCP videos and decided to fabricate by own crankcase vent hose as shown in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-4tVJT1pjU). In retrospect, I maybe should have just ponied up for the volvo part for my first go around, although it wasn't too hard to do and in fairness I haven't actually had a chance to test the PCV job yet! It was slow going for me as I found my way around, dealt with the hard to reach bolts, and tried to take my time. Took me probably 10-12 hours over two days.

Along the way, I decided to entirely pull the fuel rail since I was nervous about bending something and had purchased new injector o-rings anyways. I did notice a few pintle caps broken yesterday when I pulled the rail again and will try to find replacements for those today. I also replaced the rear cam seals behind both the distributor cap and cam sensor. They both were leaking. The intake seal had completely blown out of place. I put in a new aftermarket oil dipstick tube/dipstick/ since the old one was busted up.

The fun begins...
So after getting everything back in place I excitedly reconnected the battery and went to fire her up and heard that sad sound of chik-chik-chik. It would crank consistently but not start. That night I read some of the forums. I went over all the sensors/connections I had unplugged. I double and triple checked vacuum lines (I do have some crusty old lines that I didn't have the right gauge replacement for... planning to do that today perhaps but don't think that's why its not starting). I put ether in the throttle intake which did nothing. I didn't have a code reader at that time. Let it be for the night and went back to it yesterday since my mechanic friend was around to help.

First thing we did was run the fancy code reader/diagnostic tool my friend has. It was basically clean. Showed the ABS thing, a seat heater thing... nothing relevant to the no start issue. We did this one other time later in the day and there was no change.

So we started to go down the spark pathway. He has one of those tachometer/spark checker things (like this: https://www.tooldiscounter.com/product/ ... r-sheta100) and it was showing voltage coming from ignition coil to distributor but not in any of the spark plug wires. I dissembled and inspected distributor cap and rotor which are essentially new and look very clean. Never removed wires from cap though pressed on them all to make sure they were seated. Cleaned a little carbon off the rotor. Also removed and inspected the cam position sensor as we were considering maybe that that would need replacement since it had likely been exposed to quite a bit of oil. It actually looked pretty clean and I sprayed down with some brake cleaner then reinstalled. Eventually with the fancy tool gone did an old fashioned spark test just on wire 1 and was getting good visible spark.

So on to fuel. Mechanic friend had a fuel pressure gauge so we hooked that up and it was reading 0. That led me down a bit of a detour, but eventually realized tool was having issues so this is not reliable. I used this excellent guide (viewtopic.php?t=52252) and discovered that the fuel pump was only engaging when I bypassed the relay. So relay is on my list of things to try to acquire today... but still even when jumping the relay... no start even with a good 10 second crank. At some point in here I tried starting fluid again in both the throttle intake and MAF. I tried starting with and without MAF plugged in.

I should note that mostly yesterday I ran start tests with turbo tube installed but without airbox and its connections in stalled. My understanding is this shouldn't cause any issues but let me know if this is incorrect.

So that's where I'm at. I can have the car in my friends shop until Friday then its gotta move. Hoping I'll get to drive it out rather than have it towed! One thing I haven't checked (and not sure how I would TBH) is ensuring I have a good seal at the intake manifold. I did have the frustrating issue of losing one of my friends sockets that couldn't be got with a magnetic pickup after tightening down about half of the intake manifold bolts so had to break the seal and lift manifold again to fish it out... not sure if that could have messed things up/indicate need for a new gasket. Also not sure if that could possibly have anything to do with my no start issue. My friend didn't think so.

Things I'd like to do today:
replace fuel pump relay
replace injector pintle caps
replace crusty vacuum line
get thoughtful tips from more knowledgeable outlets :lol:

I'm going to keep reading here this morning and get to the shop by afternoon. I'll post with any updates on things I'd like to try or progress made. Thanks in advance for your insight!
Last edited by stickinthemud on 21 Dec 2021, 21:48, edited 1 time in total.

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volvolugnut
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Post by volvolugnut »

To start you will need fuel, air, spark and all the electrical connections properly connected.
You did not say (or I missed it) if you got a good fuel pressure reading.
You may have to have all air tubes and associated sensors connected for the computer to allow a start.
Look again for any loose or swapped electrical connectors.
If you have a good code reader with live data, see if you get reasonable measurements for things like air temperature, etc.
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erikv11
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Post by erikv11 »

And you need timing.

Check the metal plate the rotor mounts onto. It is possible to install it out of phase, then spark timing is completely off from compression cycles.

Easy-to-miss electrical connections include IAC and TPS.
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volvolugnut
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Post by volvolugnut »

erikv11 wrote: 21 Dec 2021, 09:02 And you need timing.

Check the metal plate the rotor mounts onto. It is possible to install it out of phase, then spark timing is completely off from compression cycles.

Easy-to-miss electrical connections include IAC and TPS.
Recently another member had a long fight with no start because of timing off.
volvolugnut
The Fleet:
Volvo: 2001 V70 T5, 1986 244DL, 1983 245DL, 1975 245DL, 1959 PV544, multiple Volvo parts cars.
Mercedes: 2001 E320, 1973 280, 1974 280C, 1989 300E, 1988 300TE, 1979 300TD, parts cars.
2009 Smart Passion
Ford: 1977 F350, 1964 F150 (2), 1938 Tudor Sedan
Farmall tractors: 1956 400 Diesel, 1946 A
And others.

stickinthemud
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Post by stickinthemud »

Thanks for the replies.

I was not able to get a good fuel pressure reading. At first realized it was reading 0 because the schrader connection from tool was not engaging valve tip. Removed that tip and jumped relay to engage fuel pump and promptly had fuel leaking from tool's attachment to fuel rail and where the line connected to the gauge. So I think just bad tool. When I engaged the valve tip manually there was a good high pressure burst of fuel... but I know not as reliable as the actual pressure readings. I can look into another tool if necessary... don't mind buying some things that I'll have to use later.

Initially I did have all air tubes hooked back up to air box but yesterday was trying without just to save time from installing/removing every time. I can try again today with it all buttoned back up.

I've checked the TPS and IAS multiple times. Is it possible to swap those connectors since they are close by and still fit? When key turned to II, I can hear throttle assembly doing something (is there a motor in there?).

The timing thing is new to me. Do you mean the metal plate can be installed out of phase? That seemed to me like it could go any direction. The rotor is slotted in such a way that it only seats in that metal plate in one way. I'll try to find that post.


Image
Last edited by matthew1 on 22 Dec 2021, 09:12, edited 1 time in total.

stickinthemud
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Post by stickinthemud »

Found the post: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=94920&hilit=rotor+d ... g&start=30 for anyone reading. I'll try this today.

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Post by wizechatmgr »

Does the exhaust smell like gas when cranking? It should if injectors are at least marginally working.

If it were me I'd replace the distributor cap & rotor. It doesn't take much to get a carbon trace, and then the spark will follow it to ground.
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stickinthemud
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Post by stickinthemud »

erikv11 wrote: 21 Dec 2021, 09:02 And you need timing.

Check the metal plate the rotor mounts onto. It is possible to install it out of phase, then spark timing is completely off from compression cycles.

Easy-to-miss electrical connections include IAC and TPS.
Thank you! This was my issue. Whats funny/annoying is I actually removed and put back that plate a couple of times... each one gave me a 50/50 shot and I kept picking wrong.

Also the PCV job was a success. Good vacuum on glove test, no smoking dipstick, and no more misfires after putting a good 60-70 miles on this evening.

For good measure was able to install new upper torque mount bushing before my shop time was up for the day.

Thanks again to all who commented and helped get me back on the road!

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Post by abscate »

erikv11 wrote: 21 Dec 2021, 09:02 And you need timing.

Check the metal plate the rotor mounts onto. It is possible to install it out of phase, then spark timing is completely off from compression cycles.

Easy-to-miss electrical connections include IAC and TPS.
What sort of idiot would make that mistake?

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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stickinthemud
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Post by stickinthemud »

Ha! Glad you were able to cross that bridge and post about it so we all could learn :-)

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