Timing Belt Nightmare Continues

[renegade420]

Ok, here we go.
2005 s60R 150k

WHAT STARTED MY PROBLEM?
A standard timing belt and components replacement.

WHICH LED TO?
Noticing the cam seals were leaking and replaced them too.

THE PROBLEM?
Upon starting the car for the first time after the job, it started right up just fine, high idled just fine, but I visually noticed the timing belt 'slithering' across the cam pulleys so I instantly shut it off.

WHAT HAVE I TRIED SINCE?
So far, I tried:
1) A different timing belt (not new, but a used one from my other s60R)
2) A different timing tensioner (both a new one, the old one, as well as the one from my other R)
3) Readjusted the tensioner tension many times.
4) A different timing idler pulley (again, a used one from my other s60R)
5) Reinspected the crank pulley and damper to verify they are seated correctly

WHERE DID IT GET OUT OF HAND?
So after all of the above, I decided to go further. I removed the hubs from my 2006 s60R and placed installed them on the problem car to see if it was possibly a 'faulty hub' causing my problems. Pulleys were removed from the hubs, swapped around, and I must be humble and admit that at this point, all timing marks/references are long gone and lost. Trying my best, I did what I know, realigned the cams at the back slots, locked them down using the special tool, reset the crank to it's proper marking, reinstalled the belt and fortuanately, it started right back up as before but again, the belt 'slither' continued. This time i let it run to see what would happen. The car runs just fine for a few minutes, the belt continues to slither, and when the idle settles down to normal, after about 15 secs. the car starts running rough, almost like it's running out of gas and almost stalls out. I eventually just shut the car off.

WHAT EXACTLY AM I TRYING TO FIGURE OUT?
I stumped on why my timing belt keeps 'slithering' even after trying all of the above?
Would the lumpy idle have possibly anything to do with the belt slither? Possibly a VVT issue?

MY LAST THOUGHTS
Im to the point of trying a whole brand new timing kit, (not from oreillys this time)
Buying new vvt hubs? The hubs do have some 'in-and-out' play while attached to the cams.

Thank u all. Appreciate anyones time.

[abscate]

The lumpy idle is the timing being off by a tooth or two. You might find P0014 pending too.

Make sure the cam hubs are seated squarely on the VVT HUBS. Is this car dual VVT?

[renegade420]

The lumpy idle is the timing being off by a tooth or two. You might find P0014 pending too.


Make sure the cam hubs are seated squarely on the VVT HUBS. Is this car dual VVT?

Yes its dual vvt

[renegade420]

Anyone know the point of the cw rotate past the crank 90degree the rotate ccw back? Thats the one thing i didnt do if i recall.

[abscate]

You have to do this.

Short version. The hubs move relative to the cams about 3-4 teeth worth. The timing has to be set with the hubs turned counterclockwise to the cams by the Volvo design engineer. If you don’t do the “ pass and return” they are set hard clockwise in the cams, incorrect.

This will cause poor running and idle.

This will not cause..

1 valve damage

2 belt walking or weaving

[renegade420]

You have to do this.

Short version. The hubs move relative to the cams about 3-4 teeth worth. The timing has to be set with the hubs turned counterclockwise to the cams by the Volvo design engineer. If you don’t do the “ pass and return” they are set hard clockwise in the cams, incorrect.

This will cause poor running and idle.

This will not cause..

1 valve damage

2 belt walking or weaving

UPDATE
So this morning I ran outside to re-do the timing. I rotated everything via crankshaft in the clockwise position, went roughly 90deg past the crank's mark, then rotated ccw until lined up. Removed components from back of cams, locked them down via special tool, removed the timing belt and removed the timing tensioner for inspection. I then, making sure the the cams were rotated at their forward most (aka to the right aka clockwise) position and reinstalled the belt. Belt felt nice and tight, especially after tensioning the tensioner. So, at this point, so far so good. I removed the cam locking tool so I could rotate the crank 2 times to check for clearance. Rotated twice by hand and lined right back up, awesome, no problem. Here's the weird part. After the 2 rotations which were slow and by hand, the timing belt had already found itself riding the inside edge, basically almost hanging over the edge of the gears. Before the rotation, the belt was riding center. I have never had this happend in all my years working on cars. Ive rechecked basically everything.
Now, here's another question/comment/concern. From what I've noticed, it seems that when the hubs are rotated in their 'forward' most position, they show no signs of 'in and out' play, as forcefully grabbing them and trying to move them in and out does nothing, they stay put. Yet, if they aren't rotated at their forward most, they seem to now be able to be physically grabbed and slightly moved 'in and out'. Knowing this, I thought to myself that this may be a reason behind the fact that they need to be in the forward position during belt install, so that they refrain from moving in that manner, and while i reinstalled the belt, I made absolute positive that both pulleys stayed in their forward position. Once i had the belt on, both pulleys would NOT move in and out, so I thought this was a good start in the right direction. But like I said, after simply rotating by hand, the belt walked itself to the inner edge. I also noticed that after the rotation, the pulleys were now able to forcefully be moved in and out, another couple rotations and the would be unmoveable in and out again.
I hope this is all making sense.
Last thing, the vvt solenoid sitting on top i believe are going bad. I know one is for sure as the original connectors broke off and are now being held on in a very 'sketchy' manner. Could that be a reason for any of this?

[abscate]

You need to set the tensioner after two full rotations of the belt do that the belt tension is equalized across the whole system. How much in and out play can you measure on the Vogt hubs? Measure this with belt off. It shouldn’t be much, like a mm at most

The vvt solenoids won’t make your belt walk.

[jonesg]

When I had this problem of wandering belt it turned out to be the crank pulley.
If you have dial Guage, hold it to the outer cam sprocket edge, or just hold the back of your thumb nail against it whilst idling, you can feel if it's out of True, it will feel like a pulse.

[grew]

You are positive you seated the cam seals properly?

[renegade420]

You are positive you seated the cam seals properly?

Im positive. Ive checked multiple times.