suspension/alignment totally stumped

Post by **famfeld** » 14 Mar 2022, 19:25

March is usually too early to change out the snow tires here in New England. Despite a few 60-degree days, I am usually take advantage of working (recently fixed) all-wheel drive through a couple of late-season snow storms. I’ve been noticing that the wear on the snows was uneven, but the Michelin X-ice tires were still performing well in all conditions at all speeds.
A few days ago my plans changed as I got a blowout on the passenger side rear tire. I was traveling around 35 mph and I hit something that sounded like it stuck to the tire for a couple of rotations, then freed up leaving behind a deflated tire. Once I figured out a had a flat and was in a safe place to park, I decided I would come back with my floor jack and two all-season tires for the rear for the time being until I swapped over all 4 back to all-season tires. The all-season tires I’m currently driving are General Altimax that I really like (third pair I have put on my cars and 2nd pair for a Volvo). I have less than 5K miles on them and they are not worn unevenly.
After swapping out the rears only to get the car home, I noticed immediately the car felt weird and would not track. My son following me home noticed that I was all over the road. Admittedly, It was me testing the way the car handled by swerving back and forth. The car felt like it was floating or skidding. These were local roads going 35 or 40 MPH. I chocked it up to mismatched tires and low tire pressure, so over the weekend I put the summer times back on the fronts as well and inflated all 4 to 32 psi. I jacked up each wheel and checked for the usual play side-to-side and up-and-down. I also looked under each corner of the car and checked tie-rod ends, and ball joint and obvious stuff. Nothing out of the ordinary for an 18 year old car with a salvage yard steering rack that always felt to me to have a bit of play even though it passes inspection.
When driving to work today it felt so unsafe that I stopped by a tire/alignment place to put it on a lift and get it looked at. They said that there is a little play in the right front ball joint and the rack has play. I agree that the rack has a little play, as I said before, but I’m not sure about the ball joint (fine by me since I have an FCP warranty on it). I wasn’t really convinced because it seems like the rear has the issue. Even though I may agree with what they diagnosed, I don’t think what I’m experiencing is due to just that alone. I went to another repair place and the guys showed me that the rear sway bar is really easy to bend with a prybar. He said its “shot” and no longer “stabilizing” the car. Also he pointed out that the alignment is bad in that you can see the rear wheels are not straight. I agree that the alignment looks bad in the rear. He said get it aligned, then if you replace the sway bar, it should fix the issue.

The best way for me to describe the issue myself is it feels like really worn control arm bushings or just really sloppy steering/suspension. No clunks or loud noises over bumps, but it is slightly hard to recover from bumps like when you have really worn struts.
I am really confused about this issue. I wonder how it developed and why it started all of the sudden. Could it just be coincidence? Most of the suspension components are newish (except for the rear) but it has up until now handled reasonably well.
I don’t think a worn rear anit-sway bar would really make that much difference, but maybe with all these factors together, the sum is greater that the individual parts.
I am unsure why the rear alignment would be so out.
I think I must of hit something at the same time I had the tire blow out and didn’t realize it. Also maybe the other factors listed above are contributing to this issue. I think I will get the alignment done and then take it from there.
Sorry to write this up in this way, but I can’t really describe this issue in the usual technical and concise way.

Please help me if you can with any ideas or suggestions.

Thanks,

Feld

Post by **br0dy519** » 14 Mar 2022, 19:46

I have a bad rear shock absorber that is causing the car rear to really sway out when hitting bumps. Did you check those and/or the upper mounts for those in the trunk ?

Funny literally same thing happened. Pre-emptive summer tire change over today because of a blowout a few weeks ago. I don't feel so lonely now.. lol

Post by **famfeld** » 14 Mar 2022, 19:54

I just pushed down on the rear bumper and it doesn't bounce.

Post by **vtl** » 14 Mar 2022, 22:18

Post some pics of your tire wear?

Rear subframe has a few typical bushings that wear themselves and cause a tire wear. For example, front stay bushings (link between front part of the subframe and a wheel knuckle). I'd crawl underneath and inspect all the bushings possible for abnormal wear.

Post by **abscate** » 15 Mar 2022, 04:41

I could give you a look on Wednesday? I have to hit the Bridgeport ferry by 1830 but you are on the way.

Post by **chrism** » 15 Mar 2022, 06:42

Is your car AWD? If so, maybe you now have mismatched tire diameters causing plus or minus torque to one or more wheels????? I’ve never owned an AWD so I don’t know how forgiving that system might be.

Maybe go with the all seasons on all four and see if you still have a problem.

motormikeyman · Post by **motormikeyman** » 15 Mar 2022, 08:47

I can think of a few things to check:
- something is bent from the flat tire event. Should show up in a 4 wheel alignment.
- you did not put the tires back on the car in the same location you removed them from. Steel belted tires cannot be crossed from one side to the other as the steel belts take up a "memory pattern" and can get very wonky when you change rotation. Especially since you have 5K miles on them.
- you may have bent the rim when the flat happened
- as a side note, you stabilizer bar will move (a lot) if you pry on it. You could probably take the rear stabilizer bar completely off the car and not notice much change in tracking. This does not sound like a legit garage you are visiting.

Post by **abscate** » 16 Mar 2022, 03:32

This does not sound like a legit garage you are visiting.

I didn’t like the sound of that either but I don’t like to jump based on a relayed conversation.

Garages have to guess on stuff too, sometimes, and the expertise from looking at 100-1000 samples of the same car model is only possible at the dealer. Problem is at the dealer , the business model of paying techs $20 an hour while billing at $150 means none of the were born yet when my T5 rolled out of Sweden/ Belgium.

Post by **vtl** » 16 Mar 2022, 05:02

abscate wrote: ↑16 Mar 2022, 03:32Problem is at the dealer , the business model of paying techs $20 an hour while billing at $150 means none of the were born yet when my T5 rolled out of Sweden/ Belgium.

$150 is so 2010-ish! I forgot the number, it was well north of $200 last time I was there (for airbag recall)! Ouch...

Post by **famfeld** » 16 Mar 2022, 09:59

I got the car aligned at Town Fair Tire and the problem is 95% fixed. Handling is much, much better and it now feels safe at all speeds. The tech pointed out that the lower rear control arms are bent inward. He was able to adjust anyway to almost spec (see attached printout) but he recommended I replace the lower control arms and then he will realign for free within 60 days. My hat goes off to tech Jonathan from Chicopee, MA Tire Rack. Not my usual experience. Normally they are really defensive and don't like talking to you. This young tech was really helpful and really nailed it.

Here are some pics of the part and the before and after specs on the alignment..

.https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

Thanks for everyone's help.

Feld