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P80 distress signal .-..-.-.--.---.

Help, Advice and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's P80 platform cars -- Volvo's 1990s "bread and butter" cars -- powered by the ubiquitous and durable Volvo inline 5-cylinder engine.

1992 - 1997 850, including 850 R, 850 T-5R, 850 T-5, 850 GLT
1997 - 2000 S70, S70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70, V70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70-XC
1997 - 2004 C70

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ProMoron
Posts: 6
Joined: 6 May 2022
Year and Model: 97 850r
Location: San Francisco

P80 distress signal .-..-.-.--.---.

Post by ProMoron »

Hello Volvo Lovers,

So a little about me, I'm a 25 year old gardener living in San Francisco and I own a '97 Volvo 850r. I decided one day that the car needed to be a manual. I'm proficient at vehicle maintenance but big boy stuff, such as this, is a little out of my league :D

So, a little over a year ago I bought a green 850 GLT, drove it, then parted it out (with help) for the m56/bits. A shame really, it was in good condition. I've been attempting a manual swap. It was going really well, all the way until the motor was back in the car. Up until this point, I had help from one of my parent's friends, who is an actual tech. To keep a long story short, he's not able to assist me anymore.

My help just blasted through the start of the job, since it was easy for him. It was extremely difficult for me to reassemble. The car is almost entirely put back together and probably 99% assembled as far as the drive train is concerned (no bumper/headlights at the moment). I had to re-wire the harness/grounds, install air intake/intercooler, install the cooling system, etc... In its current state, the car cranks... and cranks and cranks. I've read one horror story about the transmission not grounding or something? I find that unlikely, we had capped and pressure washed the engine & transmission, which were pretty clean to begin with. The car is getting fuel at the rail. I tested spark by grounding a spark plug from cyls 4 & 5, the spark was good. Air seems good, I spent a lot of time looking at diagrams to put it back together.

To me, it seems like it doesn't WANT to start... not sure if that makes sense? It should have all the 4 basics. I'm especially confused because I had read about 2-3 different sensors that could stop the engine from starting, so I went to plug in my OBDII scanner and I got no signal at all. It was not able to communicate with the computer, as if the computer was not plugged in. I'm pretty sure I got all the grounds? The ECU doesn't smell burnt either and I know its functioning somewhat because there's spark. I know I'm missing something, but it's been such an uphill battle to get here. I wasn't the one who uninstalled most of these parts. I feel like I've done a good job reinstalling, but I'm honestly not expert enough to spot any mistakes. For some of these parts, my first time ever touching them was me trying to reinstall them. I struggled.

The reason I'm writing you all is because, I'm hoping I can incentivize one or maybe a few of you to come help me get this MFer started... I've made it way too far to turn back and towing it to a shop seems like a PITA. I've contemplated calling a regular mobile mechanic. I also don't want to pay someone who's not very familiar with the car.

This was my first car and I love her to death. I know you guys are out there.... every time I find an R in the local junkyards, its completely stripped :mrgreen:


EDIT: Well, I got her running good. A friend and I were doing some basics and while testing spark with one plug on the engine bay she fired up and scared the living s**t out of us. Not really sure why or what changed. After that it ran for a week or so and then started to idle poorly (surging that would get progressively worse). There was a noticeable ticking coming from the Ignition coil and the car was back running after replacing that. I left one of the hose clamps loose and spilled all my coolant around the corner from my house! It's been running well now for several weeks.
Last edited by ProMoron on 16 Dec 2022, 14:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Sveedy
Posts: 2069
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Year and Model: 96 850 Turbo
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Post by Sveedy »

Well don't panic. There are plenty of folks here that will probably be able to help, if not in person, at least online.
So is the trany the only thing that you switched over ? Are they both the same year ?
First shot in the dark - the plate under the distributor that can be installed 180* off if your not careful.
Try to learn life's bad lessons vicariously through others.


1996 850 Turbo GLH ( Goes Like Hell )
1999 V70 GLT

scot850
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Post by scot850 »

Did you remove the distributor during the process?

You mention you washed the engine. When you did this did you cover the distributor to prevent water getting into it?

There are many other possibilities like cam sensor signal issues if the wire is routed too close to the distributor.

However, you say you are getting a spark but as Sveedy stated is it at the correct time?

So let's go back to the 3 basics: Fuel, spark and air/vacuum

Are you getting fuel at the rail at around 42psi?

Re-check all your connections and make sure you have remembered to re-connect them all, as well as all the pressure and vacuum pipes.

Neil.
2006 V70 2.5T AWD Polestar tune
2000 V70 R - still being an endless PITA
2006 XC70 - Our son now has this and still parked in our garage
2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 Limited
2015 Kia Sportage EX-L - Sold
1993 850 GLT -Sold
1998 V70 XC - Sold
1997 Volvo 850 SE NA - Went to niece in California - Sold
2000 V70 SE NA - Sold

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abscate
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Post by abscate »

There is a change from 4.3 to 4.4 Motronic engine operating software that occurs in this model so we need the year of the donor engine

You need to measure fuel pressure, not just detect it at the rail

If it won’t fire on a sniff of starter fluid, you have a spark problem. I chased the incorrectly placed rotor plate for a few weeks once, too.

Do you still have the green parts car? Chuck looking for a good fender

8)
Empty Nester
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1999-V70-T5M56 2005-V70-M56 1999-S70 VW T4 XC90-in-Red
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Chuck W  
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Post by Chuck W »

abscate wrote: 31 May 2022, 04:08
Do you still have the green parts car? Chuck looking for a good fender

Alas, my car no longer has the 850 nose on it.


To the OP. Did you (or your helper) splice the needed wire to bypass the neutral safety switch when you did the transmission swap and removed the PNP switch from the system?

Is the main fuel system relay connected? (It's located on a bracket above the radiator on the driver side of the engine bay (Opposite side from the fan relay)
'97 854 T5 - Manual Swap/M4.4/COP/NA cams/P2R Brakes/16T/ chassis bracing/ XC70 nose swap
'97 855 GLT - Hers. RN swap/16T/COP/VVT/exhaust/302s/Flashed M4.4/ chassis bracing/ 2 kid seats
'78 GLE - Waiting in the wings. Future whiteblock/T5 swap.

The Others- '83 TBird turbo, '85 Mercury Marquis LTS (1 of 134), '86 LTD Wagon, '81 Granada GL, '76 Beetle, '93 F-150 I6

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erikv11
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Post by erikv11 »

Post up if/when you figure it out!
'95 854 T-5R, Motronic 4.4, 185k
'98 V70, T5 tune-injectors-turbo, LPT engine, 304k, daily driver
'06 S60 R, 197k
'07 XC70, black, 205k
'07 XC70, willow green, 212k
'99 Camry V6 :shock: 153k
gone: '96 NA 850 210k, '98 NA V70 182k, '98 S70 NA 225k, '96 855 NA 169k

ProMoron
Posts: 6
Joined: 6 May 2022
Year and Model: 97 850r
Location: San Francisco

Post by ProMoron »

Sveedy wrote: 30 May 2022, 21:58 Well don't panic. There are plenty of folks here that will probably be able to help, if not in person, at least online.
So is the trany the only thing that you switched over ? Are they both the same year ?
First shot in the dark - the plate under the distributor that can be installed 180* off if your not careful.
The m56 is from a 96 going into a 97. We replaced the timing belt and all the accessory parts with it. Stuff like this is really why I had enlisted help from my mom's friend in the first place. We replaced all the seals on the lower end, it all went very smooth. Not his first time doing these jobs, he's been working on cars longer than I've been alive, but shit could happen. I replaced all the necessary (squishy) air/intercooler/coolant hoses. The car was running well before the swap. New plugs. New serp belt/tensioner & pulleys. 02s replaced a while back, should be ok. The cap/rotor was brand new, so I left them. The cam and crank sensors are also pretty new and were working before the swap. The ignition coil is old. The injectors are old. If I remember correctly, we broke the TCV sensor while rowing through the gears and I went to a junkyard and replaced it, because it broke without enough wire to splice. I definitely had my doubts about this but it was 2 wires I think, and I also figured it would mess up the boost, not prevent starting if I somehow messed up splicing ye?

Stuff that I think is irrelevant, I broke the cruise control sensor at the pedal and didn't replace it. New engine/sub/trans mounts and suspension bits. New fan shroud.

When the engine was removed we just unplugged the 6th wire and left the rest intact. I'm honestly not sure what plate that is? Part of the distributor or a separate piece? sorry lol Thank you for the reply

ProMoron
Posts: 6
Joined: 6 May 2022
Year and Model: 97 850r
Location: San Francisco

Post by ProMoron »

scot850 wrote: 30 May 2022, 23:02 Did you remove the distributor during the process?

You mention you washed the engine. When you did this did you cover the distributor to prevent water getting into it?

There are many other possibilities like cam sensor signal issues if the wire is routed too close to the distributor.

However, you say you are getting a spark but as Sveedy stated is it at the correct time?

So let's go back to the 3 basics: Fuel, spark and air/vacuum

Are you getting fuel at the rail at around 42psi?

Re-check all your connections and make sure you have remembered to re-connect them all, as well as all the pressure and vacuum pipes.

Neil.
I believe we put a bag over the dist. cap.

hmm I'll have to check the timing and fuel a little more specifically and get back to you on this. I just turned the key with the rail disconnected and saw fuel go in the container lol. Cant hurt to check the connections again.

ProMoron
Posts: 6
Joined: 6 May 2022
Year and Model: 97 850r
Location: San Francisco

Post by ProMoron »

ahhhh yes? I didn't cut the whole connector, I jumped two pins with a piece of insulated wire based on an m56 swap guide. Must be the thing you're talking about? I'm sorry for my ignorance. I was under the impression that if I didn't do this, the car won't crank at all?

ProMoron
Posts: 6
Joined: 6 May 2022
Year and Model: 97 850r
Location: San Francisco

Post by ProMoron »

abscate wrote: 31 May 2022, 04:08 There is a change from 4.3 to 4.4 Motronic engine operating software that occurs in this model so we need the year of the donor engine

You need to measure fuel pressure, not just detect it at the rail

If it won’t fire on a sniff of starter fluid, you have a spark problem. I chased the incorrectly placed rotor plate for a few weeks once, too.

Do you still have the green parts car? Chuck looking for a good fender

8)
No she's long gone, the driver side fender is currently on my car and the side skirts will be soon too lol I felt so bad parting the car out, she was nice!!!! I pulled the dash and console because it had a really pretty woodgrain that I'd never seen before on an 850. Probably damaged the dash slightly, have no idea what to do with it lol. got all kinds of motors and assemblies and random bs i'll probably never need. About 1 million spare t25 head screws in every flavor.

m56 from a 96 going into a 97. I gotta get back to you guys I was just doing the rookie tests man :lol:

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