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98 V70 Turbo - Crank but no start

Help, Advice and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's P80 platform cars -- Volvo's 1990s "bread and butter" cars -- powered by the ubiquitous and durable Volvo inline 5-cylinder engine.

1992 - 1997 850, including 850 R, 850 T-5R, 850 T-5, 850 GLT
1997 - 2000 S70, S70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70, V70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70-XC
1997 - 2004 C70

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Goupil
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98 V70 Turbo - Crank but no start

Post by Goupil »

Hello,

My 98 V70 2.5T M56 is giving me some troubles.
Quick recap: 2 months ago, I bent two rods in my engine due to a tuning mistakes. The engine was knocking but running. Took it out of the car and as I couldnt find a spare engine, bought an entire 1998 C70 with the same engine but automatic (slightly younger because it has the mechanical belt tensionner, but still M4.4).
Drove the C70 back home for an hour. Pulled the engine, did a timing belt, camseal behind the distributor and dropped it back into the V70.

My issue is that the car doesnt start, it tries to catch, pops a bit for a second or two then stalls again


What I have done so far:
- checked fuel pressure at the rail, holds around 50psi even when cranking
- with a spark plug touching the block I can see it sparking in daylight
- MAF plugged or unplugged
- swap the cam position sensor
- swap the crank position sensor
- check the timing
- swap the distributor cap/rotors and check position (timing marks aligned, spark going to cylinder 1) + double checked the wire position
- ran an extra ground wire straight from the battery to the engine block
- checked compressions of the first 4 cylinders (getting the 5th plug wire with the charge pipe is a bitch, and i was lazy :lol: ), they're healthy
- two ECUs with different maps (one being based on the NA market map, so doesnt care about the immo)
- test the injectors plugs by using the C70 fuel rail injectors (mine arent Volvo specific greens so I had to delete the bracket that holds them to the rail, they pop off under pressure when the rail isnt bolted to the intake), they sprayed fuel
- two batteries, and I measured 12.5V between the + post and the engine block

What bothers me:
- ECU had a code for "ECT Signal missing", this seems it could keep the car from starting. But I've tried the my other sensor, doesnt make a difference. The ECT plug is getting 5V so I dont think there's damage to the wires coming from the ECU. Also the OBD gives a very believable value for engine temp.

- OBD infos says the timing advance is 79 degrees ! A quick search says these engines usually dont go over 35/40. I've heard some backfires through the intake a few times, so the plugs firing at the wrong time doesnt sound impossible to me :roll: But why ??


Theories I have left at this point:

- CPS not picking up the flywheel teeth properly ? I didnt change the bracket, only the sensor. Maybe it's different between auto and manual ?
I dont see how I could have put the flywheel wrong, it's keyed
- bad fuel ? I know E85 doesnt like to sit but it's only been 45 days and it has been very dry
- unhappy volvo gods

I'll take any suggestion, because I'm really running out of ideas now :?
On that, I'm going back to browsing old threads and coming up with new theories every 5 min just to scrap them later :mrgreen:
1998 Volvo V70 B5254T M56
1994 Volvo 945 B230FT M90
1985 Volvo 240 B230E

yanga001
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Post by yanga001 »

Have you tried starting it while giving it gas? Maybe a vacuum leak at the intake manifold?
1998 S70 N/A Auto (Parts car)(planned to be harvested)
1998 V70 N/A Auto New full restoration project (Water pump thrown at 404K Km)
1998 V70 N/A Auto (Workhorse) (Tree to driver B pillar :( )
1999 S70 T5 Auto(Project) (planned to be fixed)
2000 S70 SE M Learning platform (planned to be driven one day)
2008 S60 2.5T Auto (Sold)
2012 Honda Pilot AWD Touring (Daily)

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Goupil
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Post by Goupil »

I tried foot to the floor, and it didnt make much of a difference :|

Vacuum leak is a possibility even if I've checked most of the hoses already, I need to find a smoke leak tester
1998 Volvo V70 B5254T M56
1994 Volvo 945 B230FT M90
1985 Volvo 240 B230E

scot850
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Post by scot850 »

I had a lot of fun when re-installing the intake manifold on -98 cars. The bracket on near #5 cylinder nuts that holds the pipe that runs along the front of the block always seem to manage to get trapped between the block and the intake.

Being a turbo, I would consider removing and carefully examine each rubber pipe to make sure it has not torn or split when re-installing and they are all pushed fully home.

Neil.
2006 V70 2.5T AWD Polestar tune
2000 V70 R - still being an endless PITA
2006 XC70 - Our son now has this and still parked in our garage
2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 Limited
2015 Kia Sportage EX-L - Sold
1993 850 GLT -Sold
1998 V70 XC - Sold
1997 Volvo 850 SE NA - Went to niece in California - Sold
2000 V70 SE NA - Sold

454cid  
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Post by 454cid »

E85? Does this car have a tune to run that?
1996 850
1999 S70 GLT (sold after deer hit)

2010 Ford Focus SE
2006 Cadillac CTS
1996 Mercedes C220
1999 Chevrolet K3500
1969 Buick LeSabre Custom 400

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Goupil
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Post by Goupil »

scot850 wrote: 23 Jun 2022, 19:23 I had a lot of fun when re-installing the intake manifold on -98 cars. The bracket on near #5 cylinder nuts that holds the pipe that runs along the front of the block always seem to manage to get trapped between the block and the intake.

Being a turbo, I would consider removing and carefully examine each rubber pipe to make sure it has not torn or split when re-installing and they are all pushed fully home.

Neil.
The manifold looked properly clamped to the engine but I'll double check that. How small of a vacuum leak could stop the car from running completely?
454cid wrote: 24 Jun 2022, 01:43 E85? Does this car have a tune to run that?
Yep been on E85 for a while now (it's under half the price of petrol, might as well) with a homemade tune and now a VAST tune. Also has green injectors and an aftermarket fuel pump to supply the extra fuel needed.
1998 Volvo V70 B5254T M56
1994 Volvo 945 B230FT M90
1985 Volvo 240 B230E

scot850
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Post by scot850 »

That is interesting on the E85 fuel. I was sure I read an article from the UK government that Volvos since 1976 can run on E10 fuel but I can't find anything that says they can run on E85. Have you checked that your car can or should run on E85?

Neil.
2006 V70 2.5T AWD Polestar tune
2000 V70 R - still being an endless PITA
2006 XC70 - Our son now has this and still parked in our garage
2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 Limited
2015 Kia Sportage EX-L - Sold
1993 850 GLT -Sold
1998 V70 XC - Sold
1997 Volvo 850 SE NA - Went to niece in California - Sold
2000 V70 SE NA - Sold

yanga001
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Joined: 24 March 2019
Year and Model: 98/99/00 v/s70’s
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Post by yanga001 »

A fairly large vacuum leak gave me an issue a while black (clamp off the manifold).

I guess the best bet is a systematic testing approach at this time.

You know you got crank and spark.

The engine does not want to catch so its fuel delivery or maybe a vacuum issue.

Fuel pressure seems good so maybe stick a little bit of higher grade fuel inside and see if issues persist. That should properly eliminate fuel delivery.

Vacuum issues can cause engines to instantly stall out but this would require a careful check.

Is there any smoke out the tailpipe when starting it?

What kind of custom tune are you using? Was it based off the m4.4 stuff available online? (there was a website with a pretty nice walkthrough). Did you delete the rear o2 sensor or anything?
1998 S70 N/A Auto (Parts car)(planned to be harvested)
1998 V70 N/A Auto New full restoration project (Water pump thrown at 404K Km)
1998 V70 N/A Auto (Workhorse) (Tree to driver B pillar :( )
1999 S70 T5 Auto(Project) (planned to be fixed)
2000 S70 SE M Learning platform (planned to be driven one day)
2008 S60 2.5T Auto (Sold)
2012 Honda Pilot AWD Touring (Daily)

User avatar
Goupil
Posts: 411
Joined: 4 February 2019
Year and Model: 98' V70 LPT
Location: Brittany
Has thanked: 30 times
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Post by Goupil »

scot850 wrote: 23 Jun 2022, 19:23 The bracket on near #5 cylinder nuts that holds the pipe that runs along the front of the block always seem to manage to get trapped between the block and the intake.
And we have a winner ! I fully expected a dumb error during assembly, and it was :mrgreen:
My old engine didnt have this bracket because one of the previous owner was the "if it runs without it I dont need it type of guy", so I didnt think about it :roll:

Rigged up a smoke machine with an old soldering iron, some fitting, an applesauce jar and a lot of epoxy
Image

Time to clean up the mess I made trying to diagnose this, swear at the oil thermostat enough that it stops leaking and hopefully it will be driving again
1998 Volvo V70 B5254T M56
1994 Volvo 945 B230FT M90
1985 Volvo 240 B230E

scot850
Posts: 14877
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Year and Model: 2000 V70 R
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Post by scot850 »

Well I hope that is it! I only know this as I did not learn from the first time I did it and did it twice! :roll: :lol:

Hopefully it is all now plain sailing!

Where is the oil cooler thermostat leaking? If it is from where the 2 pipes enter the body, remove the clamp between the pipes that hold it in place and check it is flat. They bend with age allowing the pipes to pull out enough to leak past their seals.

Hammer the clamp flat and fit in reverse.

If it continues to leak or has been leaking for a while, I recommend removing the thermostat body and very carefully scrape the seat sides for the seal as they build up with burnt oil and become crusty. When you try to fit new seals they will rip the new seals when you fit them. Again I learned this the hard way when the dealer did this job twice and I replaced the pipes as they said they were the problem. They were not and I replaced perfectly good hoses. Those hoses live on with our friend befarrer in Edmonton now!

Good Luck!

Neil.
2006 V70 2.5T AWD Polestar tune
2000 V70 R - still being an endless PITA
2006 XC70 - Our son now has this and still parked in our garage
2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 Limited
2015 Kia Sportage EX-L - Sold
1993 850 GLT -Sold
1998 V70 XC - Sold
1997 Volvo 850 SE NA - Went to niece in California - Sold
2000 V70 SE NA - Sold

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