Purchasing a V70, rarely changed the oil?

[WhoaTed]

There is nothing magic about 5,000 or 10,000 miles.

That's why I'm a big believer in oil analysis. For $20 you can find out that your oil is doing just as good a job as it was on the day you put it in, no matter what the mileage, PLUS you get hard data on the internal condition of your engine.

So much is lost in the written word, keep in mind that this is in the best humour and interest in discussion (in other words, don't take it personally)

Agreed, nothing "magic" about 5-10,000 miles except that you KNOW your engine is protected at the best possible level. Sure, for $20 I can find out the condition of my oil etc etc, but for the same money I can do the oil change if I'm using petro-based, and for a few bucks more I can do synthetic. With regular changes and proper maintenance I'm pretty confident of what the internal condition is going to be. Besides, all of a sudden a red flag goes up from an oil analysis....what do you do, a tear-down to find the problem? I'm not totally up to speed on the procedure for oil analysis...when do you submit a sample/to whom/how long for results? Yeah, you're right, I think we're getting into a can of worms here, ha ha.

To each their own, and I'm sure that you've had success with your method (otherwise you wouldn't feel so confident about it), but I've never had an engine go south on me on any vehicle I've had (in over 30 years of ownership of somewhere over twenty vehicles), and I've had several "daily" drivers at 180,000+ when they were sold in excellent running condition (including a recent Yukon at 245,000 with NO drivetrain issues). I've used the 5,000-10,000 rule-of-thumb on all of them, using quality oils and filters. Aside from what any engine overhaul costs, knowing from other's experience what the cost is to overhaul the quad cam all-aluminum six in my Alfa keeps me on the regularly scheduled maintenance. No worries...

[MadeInJapan]

instarx, you are most definitely correct. I read on Bob the oil guy's site that Mobil-1 typically (from oil analysis) only began to break down at about 10K miles and it was wasteful to change it before that...but I've not ever sent off my oil for analysis so I've just stuck with 5K mile intervals. Maybe I should "invest" in the analysis. Btw, how often do you change your oil at this point (from analysis) and do you use synthetic as well...also, how often do you have it analyzed?

[instarx]

I understand what you are saying WhoaTed, and that's one way to do it, but with oil analysis you don't throw away perfectly good oil, you get early-warning on a host of engine wear issues, and you save money . Seems smart to me.

Sorry MIJ, I haven't owned the Volvo long enough to gather any data. I'll send my first sample to the lab when I get 5K on the oil and then every 5K thereafter until I get a low-acceptable result. After that I'll just sample at oil changes. I'm not interested in pushing the edge - I left myself a generous margin on the truck and I'll do the same with the Volvo. I suspect I will get a lot more than 10K with the Mobil 1, but we'll see. I'll post my reports to MVS if anyone is interested.

I've had my truck's oil analyzed several times (Mobil 1 in a 6.5L diesel) and it was always still fine at 10K, so that's the change interval I chose for it. I could probably go longer. It's hard to sample its oil because I have to get it from the drain plug. As I found out last month when I accidentally put too much oil in the Volvo, its easy to extract oil from it via the dipstick!


Here are some sample reports from the lab I use...

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/gas_report_1.html

[WhoaTed]

Yeah, what you both said...I think that we're agreeing on nearly all of this, there is value to be found in oil analysis as far as some internal engine condition goes. MIJ says that Bob the Oil Guy's (related to Larry the Cable Guy?) analysis found that Mobil 1 begins to degrade at 10,000 or so, which jibes with the info that I've found in the past, hence my 5,000 M1 changes. Past data has also shown that Petro-based (at least the Castrol that I've used for 30 years in the older cars) generally begins degrading at around 7,500. Obviously an engine's drivegear, displacement, environment, the manner in which it's driven, etc etc will have an effect on degradation but I don't see the risk being worth the reward of potentially saving a few bucks by being able to go a few extra thousand miles between changes...or even double the interval, IMO. It's $20 for the analysis...postage to send it...time spent and hassle of getting a sample from the car (sounds like fun)...wait for the result...find out that it's fine...so then what, another analysis until it says that it's bad? It sounds like you're doing as much or more analyzing at $20+ a pop than changing, so where's the savings? That's the only thing that I think we're in contention about...

I remember everyone who was saving money and getting a far superior ride by having their tire treads shaved regularly too... Sorry, low blow, ha ha. You really do have a valid point, whereas the tire shavers were just...well, I'll leave it at that.

[instarx]

You're right Ted - what a hassle it is to get that oil sample. It takes a whole ten minutes. Clearly not worth the $50 oil change it saves. It makes much more sense to spend an hour and $50 and just change the oil whether it needs it or not. Don't know how I could have been so cheap and lazy!

[WhoaTed]

You're right Ted - what a hassle it is to get that oil sample. It takes a whole ten minutes. Clearly not worth the $50 oil change it saves. It makes much more sense to spend an hour and $50 and just change the oil whether it needs it or not. Don't know how I could have been so cheap and lazy!

If you're getting it via the plug (as you mentioned earlier), uh yeah, I'd say it's a hassle...pull the front under-tray on a P2 V70, diddle with the plug, etc., put it back together, pack it up, trip to the post office/UPS/whatever. Via the dipstick tube is easier, but of course then the pump needs to be thoroughly cleaned so as not to cross-contaminate your samples, right? Hey man, I'm not being a smart-ass...if you want accurate hard data, that's what's required. Otherwise you're analyzing any residual oil in your pump as well as your engine (I have a fairly serious lab at the brewery, I know just enough about sampling to be dangerous). And an oil change has never cost me fifty bucks...DIY on the V70 is around $30 w/M1, most of the rest of my cars around twenty or less. And I thought that there was agreement above that M1 is due around 10,000...? So when my 10,000 interval comes up, I send in a sample, get it back, it says it's still good...so at 15,000 I send in another one and it shows deterioration. When did that start...14,900? 10,100? 12,000? I dunno...but I'm out an extra $40 plus time involved, and I may have been driving on deterorating oil for a thousand miles or more. Yeah, I get it now...

As I said before, oil analysis has its use, but IMO it's not to save me a few bucks on oil changes. Glad it works for you. BTW, I'll have to go way back up to see where I called YOU cheap and lazy...I think I was referring to people who let their oil changes go too long, period. Take a pill...or better yet, have a BEER, ha ha.

[instarx]

There is a type of person who always re-interprets the facts to be slightly in their favor, and finds obscure reasons why they have to be right. For example you greatly over-estimate how often samples are taken, you under-price Mobil 1 oil by at least $2.50/qt, you introduce cross-contamination issues in a non-existent pump, and you say that everyone agrees that Mobile 1 only lasts to 10k.

Your argument that oil deteriorates between samples is somewhat better, but your examples are biased and overstate the risk. First, surely you know that deterioration happens on a continuous gradient and oil doesn't simply stop working at 10,100 or at 14,990 miles. Second, if the oil was approaching its low-acceptable range you'd know that from the most recent GOOD sample, not from the next BAD sample. Me, I'm going to assume that people analyzing their oil have some common sense.

[WhoaTed]

I had a feeling that this was where we would end up...did you miss where I wrote "don't take it personally"?

I didn't say that "everyone agrees" on M1 and 10,000 miles being a good interval...I DID say there there was agreement: Bob the Oil Guy, MIJ, your truck, and I. Sure, different vehicles etc but with the possible exception of your diesel is M1 really going to be THAT different, ie more than a couple of thousand miles? Six quarts of Mobil 1 costs me $28.21 from my supplier...the same thing at retail can be had for $31 (Sam's Club, others). A filter is $4.50....oil change: $32.71. Re: the "non-existent pump", I forgot that you can suck oil thru the dipstick tube with a straw and spit it into your sample container, since I've """ introduce(d) cross-contamination issues in a non-existent pump...""". Either you suck it out with a pump, or you suck it out with your mouth. If it's a pump and you're not cleaning it out between uses (what else DO you use it for, anyway?), you're contaminating your samples...period. THAT's hard data, dude...don't get pissed at me, it's the way the world works. Lab work is ANAL...if you're having lab work done you have to BE anal...otherwise your "hard data" is just information. Nor did I "grossly overestimate" how often samples are taken...your words: """I'll send my first sample to the lab when I get 5K on the oil and then every 5K thereafter until I get a low-acceptable result. After that I'll just sample at oil changes"'''. BTW, I'm not arguing, I'm stating my opinion...big difference. Like I said before, it works for you...it's cool...you're happy. The main thing that I questioned is your claim of saving money.

A lurker to this conversation e-mailed me and said that you seemed to get your hackles up after I made the tire-shaving comment. Don't tell me that you were one of THEM...

Lighten up, bro...I am.


I am WhoaTed and I approve this message.

[instarx]

You seem awfully sure there are only two ways to get an oil sample out of the dipstick tube - pump or mouth sucking. I simply insert tygon tubing, put my thumb over the top and pull out the tube full of oil. No sucking or pumps involved. As for that annoying hassle of a trip to the post office to mail the sample, most people would just walk to their mailbox like I do and drop in the pre-paid mailer.

HOWEVER, you were right about the price of Mobil 1 - it is $31 at Sams's club. I don't shop at Sam's Clubs or WalMarts, so I did not know that. I was mistaken. It doesn't matter though - I STILL think taking an occasional sample is a lot better than changing the oil every 5k.

You did indeed overestimate the frequency of sampling. As I clearly stated, I am going to do some extra sampling because I have a "new" 135,000 mile engine that I know nothing about. I'm curious about it's internal condition, not so much the condition of the oil at 5K. In fact, I've missed the first 5k sample so I'll probably just wait until around 10k - so I must not be too anal about it.

As for sampling being anal... personally I think changing the oil at 5k whether it needs it or not is more obsessive than changing it only when it needs it.