Dealer Service Costs

[BlackBart]

Just need to spout a bit here.

My old Audi A4 wagon is two large square states away, in an Audi dealer for an airbag recall. Has to be done at the dealer, fine.
I asked them to check on a CEL which I was told was the upstream O2 sensor, which I changed with Bosch before we left. CEL still there.

An airbag warning light is on - I assumed it was part of the failed airbag igniter circuit and maybe it would go away with the recall replacement.

They are more than polite, with top notch techs. They even text you a video made by the tech, looking under the hood and explaining where the problems are. That's pretty slick - you couldn't walk back in the shop and look around underneath with the tech. So far, impressive.

I put a new used engine in this car 30,000 miles+ ago and replaced nearly every system with new, but it doesn't get used much, so a few things may need some service or have worn out already. I changed the oil and gapped plugs and off we went 900 miles to deliver it to a kid with his first real job. He'll borrow it for the winter to get to work.

SO...the punch line! Serious oil leak where the filter and oil cooler attach to the block. $840.

Airbag light is not the steering wheel recall, but the control module in the seat for the drivers side airbag igniter. More diagnostics time required to verify. $150/hour.

CEL is the Secondary Air Injection pump and fuse. This is an emissions thing to pump air into the exhaust at start-up to warm up the O2 sensors quickly. I replaced all these parts 30,000 miles ago with new. It's all plastic, and hangs under the car. $1500. (!)

I understand I'm in an Audi dealer with posh cars and people, but I'm pretty surprised. Mine might be the oldest thing in there! Advisor said "This is in really good shape, these are pretty minor things for this age." Well that's nice, but the sticker shock is a surprise.

The oil cooler itself is $40 to $80 at FCP. Probably not factory dealer parts or prices. The factory rubber seal is $25. He said they take the precaution of replacing the whole oil cooler system and housing, which saves much labor later if it all has to come apart again. Labor 350 / parts 450 (really?). Oil and water both travel through this cooler, you don't want it to fail. I said go ahead. It's dumping oil on the belly pan, probably started on our long trip.

The emissions pump is $285 (FCP) for a Pierburg, which I think is OEM. It's a plastic air pump with a short. It probably gets exposed to spray under the car. It needs to be working but its not a safety item. I can do that later.

The airbag igniter is absolutely a safety item - we may have been driving this for years not knowing the side bag might not go off in a T collision. Now my kid is using it. So I said find out what's wrong and how many american dollars. It's inside the seat I'm told.

There, I've crabbed at you all about my problems. I've already told the cats and they don't seem to care.
Dealer prices are all a bit new to me, or it could be I'm a cheapskate...

[matthew1]

What year A4? I need a mental image or the facts won't digest into my car calculator... some sort of cognitive misfire

Remember when Euro techs were $95-100/hr? That seems like two years ago to me, but it was 2010 now that I check it, when I had my V70 R at Volvo Specialists here in Denver.

Sorry you're facing all that expensive work far away.

[BlackBart]

Remember when I charged people $75/hr and felt guilty about it...OH wait, that was this week!


2001. B5 platform, 1.8T 20 valve, 180 hp. Fun to drive. Best ice car I've ever been in - still the old skool quattro.
5 speed, cloth sport seats, no leaky sunroof, higher suspension for snow.

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But this happened many years ago - First owner I believe ran the oil low and sludged up passages. It only holds 3.7 qts stock, then if it gets low... you're running a small high compression turbo motor in a cramped engine space with too much heat and not enough oil. It was a VW failure point from that era. I missed the recall by like 10 years, where they bought people new engines.
They traded it when it needed it's first timing belt. I had it full of new oil, was zipping to Denver, and near the Wyoming line it ...blew up. No warning. Spun the rod bearings, stuck a hole in the block. I was so mad at that car for so long............

Got it home 300 miles. Oil everywhere.

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I bought this used with 130k from Spalding in Spokane. Tested, rated, high compression. I replaced everything but the long block including the turbo and oil pump. New flywheel and clutch, new crankshaft seals, motor mounts, injectors, everything. Learned by doing and it took a while. Unheated garage then. Good thing it's another cult forum car - lots of advice and DIYs out there.

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And it looked like this!
(the beauty of the Audi A4 is you unbolt the front and slide the engine right in without lifting over the radiator or taking the hood off. Also handy for timing belts - that's how the dealer works on them - "Service Position") This was the most complicated packaging of anything I've touched, and just a spaghetti of hoses, pipes, wires, connectors, sensors, clips. I marked all ends with green painters tape.

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I leave all the plastic covers off - I like to see the engine and anything maybe going wrong.

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[scot850]

Our Volvo dealer in Calgary charges $170/hr + 5% tax (about $135/hr US).

The Volvo dealer here charges me a flat fee for diagnostic/issue of 1 hour labor. I suggest you try to negotiate that one or you will end up with a huge bill. Appreciate it is a safety issue and you are absolutely right to be concerned with that.

If the car is generally a good one other than these issues, I suggest working out what it would cost to buy a decent car for the repairs you have to spend on it. A used car costing the same in repairs will cost you the same in bringing up to Stage 0 . I reckon with the jump in parts prices during Covid (not profit driven at all..........!) you are getting off light. I may have to replace the AC evaporator on my Toyota 4Runner. Cheapest I can find in North America is $750 CDN! or $400 US from Japan with shipping and import cost on top of that. Then you are recommended to replace the heater core and a control valve while in there, so parts will easily be $1500 CDN from the dealer. I can buy the OEM Denso evaporator from a parts supplier for $180 including free shipping........!

Replacing the Suspension (Fluid type) I was quoted $8500 CDN, and the exhaust manifolds $5000. They charge about $160/hr labor.

The Toyota is now in for diagnostics on the evaporator (another known issue I did not know about as are the other 2). That car has only about 115,000 miles on an 03 4Runner. Oh, and there is a pending issue with slow top gear engagement when cold and occasional slow down changes. Fluid changed (allegedly) before buying from a main dealer.

Neil.

[BlackBart]

Yowch !

It’s a great car and a blast to drive. Curiously that little Audi weighs the same as the 850, but holds way less.

A, we don’t need it and B, I just haven’t trusted it since the motor boom. Frustrated with how complicated and tightly packaged it is.

But my son pointed out that since the new motor (2014, only 30,000 mi since then), it’s been perfectly reliable and has been to Denver and Seattle. Y’know, he’s right!

I’m happy to let him use it until they’re settled, but I’m not going to transfer ownership, I’m not going to make him insure it, and I’m certainly not going to make him pay for repairs he didn’t cause on this complicated, over-engineered car.

I just put a new timing chain tensioner and ramps, and replaced a split aftermarket rubber hose before I took it down there.

[matthew1]

Man alive Audi liked to overcomplicate things in this era. Remember the S4 and its problems with timing chain/engine bay packaging? Legendary maintenance costs with that. I think it was a turbo V8 and everything was difficult to get to. Very fast though.

Thanks for the photos, BB. That A4 was a huge seller if I remember correctly. My B-I-L had one for a short time in 2000, when they were just hitting the market. Super comfortable, fast, nice size.

Replacing the Suspension (Fluid type) I was quoted $8500 CDN, and the exhaust manifolds $5000. They charge about $160/hr labor.

The Toyota is now in for diagnostics on the evaporator (another known issue I did not know about as are the other 2). That car has only about 115,000 miles on an 03 4Runner. Oh, and there is a pending issue with slow top gear engagement when cold and occasional slow down changes. Fluid changed (allegedly) before buying from a main dealer.

Wait, I thought Toyota cars and trucks didn't have these high costs (kinda sarcasm... about half). Is this just bad engineering on a single (but long-lived, as Toyota is fond of doing) body type?

[abscate]

I’ve got the same 1.8T 180HP in my RaceBeetle with 5 waggles. Special ordered that. I managed to lose oil pressure running it on Dino 5000 before switching to synthetic, but replacing the oil pump fixed it. Sludge wasn’t bad at all.

I remember when they weren’t afraid to ask for $500 to fix your car, now it’s $5000

For long runners FreeCP parts are great, and now I have a mechanic on Long Island who will use them

[scot850]

We also had a 1999.5 (apparently they were different to 1999?) Audi A4 with the 2.8 V6 quattro sedan for about 10 years from 2001. It was my wife's car which she bought in Jan 2001 when she moved to Canada ahead of me and the kids. It was bought from the main dealer and had been in an accident but in those days we had no way of looking that up. The paint was 2 different colors at the front. My wife did not notice it. Unluckiest car we have owned in that it was hit 3 times in our ownership.

We had the car serviced at the dealership which was awful until they moved to a new premises. Then I was able to sort them out and they were good after that. We did joke that it was an expensive car wash as every time it went in it was $1000 minimum!

In fairness, the car was unbelievable in the snow, and was pretty reliable apart from battery drain due to low distances covered in the winter. My wife took it to the station and train to downtown. Using a trickle charger fixed that. My wife loved that car, so who am I to say it was a bad car. We only sold it when we needed a larger car. We sold it and bought the 06 XC70 we still have today that our son and wife share as they don't do much driving working from home.

Neil.

[BlackBart]

Man alive Audi liked to overcomplicate things in this era. Remember the S4 and its problems with timing chain/engine bay packaging?

So true.

That S4 with turbo V6 was quite a car, but yes, a maintenance PITA.

The RS4 (I call it Rocket Ship) was the same car with big flares and the little aluminum V8 from the the big A8 and R8 crammed in there. An absolute monster. BUT...the complicated timing chains and plastic ramps were on the BACK of the engine, between the block and the transmission! They were supposed to be lifetime / no maintenance, but we've all heard that before. It was thousands of $$ to change them (like 8000 I heard). How can there be that much labor?

Abscate - Yes, same engine...I think mine is an AWM code. When they put this motor North-South in the B5 A4 / Passat chassis, the big cross member was in the way of the pan. So they did what any competent engineer would do - they wrapped the pan over the crossmember and made it smaller! 3.7 qts - IF it was always topped up. There are very long oil filters available - VW makes one - that almost hit the motor mount, but they hold an extra half-quart of oil, which helps a bit. But it's all packed in there so tight, turbocharged, with a small intercooler stuffed into the left front wheelwell. Right up against the timing cover is the radiator, A/C condenser, and oil cooler.

Neil - SO good in the snow! And it's set up with close to 60-40 rear/front traction, so it behaves really nicely. Only issue is that engine hanging way out over the front wheels because of transaxle / diff / transfer case, so it's nose-heavy.

[BlackBart]

Fun in the snow....




I have to say my XC wagon is really fun to drive in deep snow. With new Blizzak tires, it stops, it accelerates, it turns, it drifts if you want it to. Fun!