07 S60 AC Help - Hot air/cycling compressor

[yanga001]

So today we have a 80F sunny day. Ran the car for 15 minutes with AC on before connecting the gauges. Connected the 4 way gauge to high and low side. Had 30psi that would cycle down to 0psi when running on the low side, and about 75psi on the high side. Added refringent very slowly until the system stopped short cycling. Colder air on passengers side but warm on drivers still. Let it run for 10 minutes like this, no change. Pressures were around 40-45 on low and 90-100 on high. Slowly kept adding more up to 50psi on the low side, compressor locked up, smoked the clutch and then disengaged..

Those pressures seem to be way off to me. Based on the temp and humidity level (we just had thunderstorms last night and everything is still wet, humidity is around 60% right now), I'd expect low side to be lower, and high side to be higher..

Do I just have horrible luck and have another bad compressor? I purchase all my parts through FCP so lifetime warranty makes that less of a headache, but I'm stumped. Should I toss a new EVAP in it just to be safe, and assume there's a partial blockage? I love this car and really don't want to get rid of it, but I can't keep dumping money into it like this.

Did you trip the low pressure cutoff switch? I do not know what the value it is on these cars, but i have never filled the low side to exceed 50 before while running.

I like to check the evaporator temperatures with a scan tool/vida to confirm the charge and operation. I look for temperatures in the realm of 7C or lower and i think a measured high side pressure of 1000-1250kpa when AC is ON (on the scan tool) if i am remembering from last year correctly.

Starting with the basics, i assume you are in America and can easily grab R134A which is the recommended spec.

Lets get all the data out for everyone here.

What would you consider short cycling to be? Is it 10-15 seconds compressor on then off, or a minute or more?

Do you have a scan tool, and are you able to check for climate control codes? I once had an issue with my 98 V70 where it would trip the low pressure switch and disable AC until the code was cleared. Seemed to be an intermittent switch.

Since you have confirmed there are no leaks, lets look at other behaviours. Does the cooling fan instantly kick on, or does it take a little bit. If i recall correctly, this car has a specific range (i have an 08 S60) where the cooling fan kicks on if the charge is too low and if its too high. The speed of the fan corresponds to how far off the mean you are (it will sound like a turbine when its really out of spec).

Did you see actual smoke coming out of the compressor and clutch? Is the compressor burned up now? Could a thermocouple have tripped on the compressor or a corresponding code tripped?



In terms of direction, i would say this. If the compressor is still functional then you should

A) verify you have no climate control codes (may need vida or a good amazon scanner that can pull module specific codes. I use a foxwell NT510 Elite with volvo liscenses, but there are many others now).

B) see if you can check the evaporator temperature in the live data with a scan tool. Also confirm the pressure the system thinks it is charged too.

C) see if you can get a thermometer to measure the temperature delta between the two systems

D) check your cabin filter and see if the evaporator is all dusty/dirty.

IF there is no blockage, and the system is running correctly then you may have an issue with the blend doors. I believe another user had an issue with that in the P2 forum. When my AC ran under charged, my evaporator temperature would jump above the exterior temperature and would head my car up. I also had the passenger side running cooler then drivers side, but i had a bad condenser leak which was fixed. I will report back more this season, but i believe the issue was resolved.

[soulvoid21]

So today we have a 80F sunny day. Ran the car for 15 minutes with AC on before connecting the gauges. Connected the 4 way gauge to high and low side. Had 30psi that would cycle down to 0psi when running on the low side, and about 75psi on the high side. Added refringent very slowly until the system stopped short cycling. Colder air on passengers side but warm on drivers still. Let it run for 10 minutes like this, no change. Pressures were around 40-45 on low and 90-100 on high. Slowly kept adding more up to 50psi on the low side, compressor locked up, smoked the clutch and then disengaged..

Those pressures seem to be way off to me. Based on the temp and humidity level (we just had thunderstorms last night and everything is still wet, humidity is around 60% right now), I'd expect low side to be lower, and high side to be higher..

Do I just have horrible luck and have another bad compressor? I purchase all my parts through FCP so lifetime warranty makes that less of a headache, but I'm stumped. Should I toss a new EVAP in it just to be safe, and assume there's a partial blockage? I love this car and really don't want to get rid of it, but I can't keep dumping money into it like this.

Did you trip the low pressure cutoff switch? I do not know what the value it is on these cars, but i have never filled the low side to exceed 50 before while running.

I like to check the evaporator temperatures with a scan tool/vida to confirm the charge and operation. I look for temperatures in the realm of 7C or lower and i think a measured high side pressure of 1000-1250kpa when AC is ON (on the scan tool) if i am remembering from last year correctly.

Starting with the basics, i assume you are in America and can easily grab R134A which is the recommended spec.

Lets get all the data out for everyone here.

What would you consider short cycling to be? Is it 10-15 seconds compressor on then off, or a minute or more?

Do you have a scan tool, and are you able to check for climate control codes? I once had an issue with my 98 V70 where it would trip the low pressure switch and disable AC until the code was cleared. Seemed to be an intermittent switch.

Since you have confirmed there are no leaks, lets look at other behaviours. Does the cooling fan instantly kick on, or does it take a little bit. If i recall correctly, this car has a specific range (i have an 08 S60) where the cooling fan kicks on if the charge is too low and if its too high. The speed of the fan corresponds to how far off the mean you are (it will sound like a turbine when its really out of spec).

Did you see actual smoke coming out of the compressor and clutch? Is the compressor burned up now? Could a thermocouple have tripped on the compressor or a corresponding code tripped?



In terms of direction, i would say this. If the compressor is still functional then you should

A) verify you have no climate control codes (may need vida or a good amazon scanner that can pull module specific codes. I use a foxwell NT510 Elite with volvo liscenses, but there are many others now).

B) see if you can check the evaporator temperature in the live data with a scan tool. Also confirm the pressure the system thinks it is charged too.

C) see if you can get a thermometer to measure the temperature delta between the two systems

D) check your cabin filter and see if the evaporator is all dusty/dirty.

IF there is no blockage, and the system is running correctly then you may have an issue with the blend doors. I believe another user had an issue with that in the P2 forum. When my AC ran under charged, my evaporator temperature would jump above the exterior temperature and would head my car up. I also had the passenger side running cooler then drivers side, but i had a bad condenser leak which was fixed. I will report back more this season, but i believe the issue was resolved.

I'll do my best to answer your questions in order.

Not sure if I tripped a switch. It's possible one of the sensor or something was triggered while my mech was doing work. No obvious lights (like on the gauge cluster or the climate controls, all lights are normal status and no messages on the display screen).

I don't have a VIDA, but I do have the iCarsoft VOL V3.0. Not sure if it will read AC system things but I will check when my girl friend gets home (it's in our XC90 that she's currently driving).

American car, yes. Easy access to R134A. I have 2 10oz cans in my garage right now for this purpose. I know it's not eco friendly, but I've just been letting the excess pressure into atmosphere.. Not spending for a multi hundred dollar vacuum pump and tank too.. lol.

I would consider short cycling to be a couple of seconds. The compressor will running for 2-3 seconds at most, click off for 10 seconds and repeat.

See scan tool answer above.

For the cooling fan, I've had various results. 90% of the time it's in low speed mode when I've been looking at the system. It will turn off when I turn off AC at the climate controls, and turn back on the moment I enable AC again. I've only had it kick into high speed when the system seems to be over pressured. Like when the AC seized today, it immediately when into high speed fan.

Yes, actual smoke from the compressor clutch. i was in the car when it happened, but it came from the right side of the car, and immediately stopped smoking once the AC disengaged.

Cabin filter is less than a year old. I change them frequently.

To comment on your last paragraph, the sudden heat I've also experienced while undercharged and driving. Blowing kinda cold on passengers side, warm on drivers, then boom just real warm, but not full blown hot air as if it went to heat mode. And I've tried the trick of going to full heat, letting it sit for a minute and back to full cold, no change. Blend doors worked perfectly fine before this last summer and all winter long. If I went to cold side, it was pulling in cold air from outside.

[firstv70volvo]

...
Slowly kept adding more up to 50psi on the low side, compressor locked up, smoked the clutch and then disengaged..

Those pressures seem to be way off to me. Based on the temp and humidity level (we just had thunderstorms last night and everything is still wet, humidity is around 60% right now), I'd expect low side to be lower, and high side to be higher..

Do I just have horrible luck and have another bad compressor? I purchase all my parts through FCP so lifetime warranty makes that less of a headache, but I'm stumped. Should I toss a new EVAP in it just to be safe, and assume there's a partial blockage? I love this car and really don't want to get rid of it, but I can't keep dumping money into it like this.

The compressor will lock up if the system has been overcharged of if you're adding too much liquid refrigerant to the low side while the compressor is running (can upside down= liquid refrigerant). Do you know how much refrigerant you had added when the compressor locked up? Locking up the compressor can do instant damage so hopefully the compressor is still okay. It sounds like you started with some refrigerant charge in the system, was it evacuated and vacuum out correctly prior to adding any refrigerant?

[soulvoid21]

...
Slowly kept adding more up to 50psi on the low side, compressor locked up, smoked the clutch and then disengaged..

Those pressures seem to be way off to me. Based on the temp and humidity level (we just had thunderstorms last night and everything is still wet, humidity is around 60% right now), I'd expect low side to be lower, and high side to be higher..

Do I just have horrible luck and have another bad compressor? I purchase all my parts through FCP so lifetime warranty makes that less of a headache, but I'm stumped. Should I toss a new EVAP in it just to be safe, and assume there's a partial blockage? I love this car and really don't want to get rid of it, but I can't keep dumping money into it like this.

The compressor will lock up if the system has been overcharged of if you're adding too much liquid refrigerant to the low side while the compressor is running (can upside down= liquid refrigerant). Do you know how much refrigerant you had added when the compressor locked up? Locking up the compressor can do instant damage so hopefully the compressor is still okay. It sounds like you started with some refrigerant charge in the system, was it evacuated and vacuum out correctly prior to adding any refrigerant?

I was doing exactly as you said, can upside down. I assume this is something I shouldn't be doing? I'm using the below 4-way with the can of R134 on the Ref line. Vac and High side I kept closed while adding from the can per the warning on the can.

https://a.co/d/hqL4t5h

The system previously had been vacuumed out properly 4-5 times, but the very last time when the EVAP Valve was changed, my mech checked for clogs with compressed air, ran cleaner through, added about 3oz of oil, vacuumed and then charged up to 700g (scare to do 1000g again and blow something up again). 700g being too low as already determined, so still experiencing short cycling and basically no cooling.

I waited for some warmer temps, then tried to add some R134 from a can and evacuating to atmosphere when it gets overcharged. I already let a lot of pressure out of the system but I don't have the gauges on it currently. It's 85F in the sun right now and pretty hot in the cabin. Started the car just now and ran the AC while holding around 1500-2k rpm, passengers side is pretty cool but not as cold as expected, drivers side in the center console is about the same temp as passengers now but the vent by the drivers door is still warm. Seems to rule out blend doors issues in my eyes, but I do also have a snake cam I could send down to inspect with as well.

I may send the cam up through the filter housing to check for a blockage on the evap. Also still waiting for my girl friend to get home so I can see evap temps if my scan tool will show those.

[soulvoid21]

Videos of blend door operation. Seems normal to me and no weird noises.

Both sides I cycle fully from cold to hot twice, and then trigger operation of direction, from face, to floor, and to defrost vent.

Drivers side -
Passengers side -

[firstv70volvo]

...
Slowly kept adding more up to 50psi on the low side, compressor locked up, smoked the clutch and then disengaged..

Those pressures seem to be way off to me. Based on the temp and humidity level (we just had thunderstorms last night and everything is still wet, humidity is around 60% right now), I'd expect low side to be lower, and high side to be higher..

Do I just have horrible luck and have another bad compressor? I purchase all my parts through FCP so lifetime warranty makes that less of a headache, but I'm stumped. Should I toss a new EVAP in it just to be safe, and assume there's a partial blockage? I love this car and really don't want to get rid of it, but I can't keep dumping money into it like this.

The compressor will lock up if the system has been overcharged of if you're adding too much liquid refrigerant to the low side while the compressor is running (can upside down= liquid refrigerant). Do you know how much refrigerant you had added when the compressor locked up? Locking up the compressor can do instant damage so hopefully the compressor is still okay. It sounds like you started with some refrigerant charge in the system, was it evacuated and vacuum out correctly prior to adding any refrigerant?

I was doing exactly as you said, can upside down. I assume this is something I shouldn't be doing? I'm using the below 4-way with the can of R134 on the Ref line. Vac and High side I kept closed while adding from the can per the warning on the can.

https://a.co/d/hqL4t5h

The system previously had been vacuumed out properly 4-5 times, but the very last time when the EVAP Valve was changed, my mech checked for clogs with compressed air, ran cleaner through, added about 3oz of oil, vacuumed and then charged up to 700g (scare to do 1000g again and blow something up again). 700g being too low as already determined, so still experiencing short cycling and basically no cooling.

I waited for some warmer temps, then tried to add some R134 from a can and evacuating to atmosphere when it gets overcharged. I already let a lot of pressure out of the system but I don't have the gauges on it currently. It's 85F in the sun right now and pretty hot in the cabin. Started the car just now and ran the AC while holding around 1500-2k rpm, passengers side is pretty cool but not as cold as expected, drivers side in the center console is about the same temp as passengers now but the vent by the drivers door is still warm. Seems to rule out blend doors issues in my eyes, but I do also have a snake cam I could send down to inspect with as well.

I may send the cam up through the filter housing to check for a blockage on the evap. Also still waiting for my girl friend to get home so I can see evap temps if my scan tool will show those.

With the can upside down you're sending in liquid refrigerant, which will lock up the compressor if the liquid doesn't change to a vapor before getting to the compressor. You can do it this way if you flow in a little liquid at a time with enough waiting time in between so the liquid can flash to vapor before adding more any more liquid. It's slower but safer to charge on the low/suction side with vapor only, can right side up.

[yanga001]

So the compressor is not "blown up" right now so thats good.

Sounds like you are getting cooling, just not at the expected level.

Lets hope the live data will shed some light on this.

[soulvoid21]

OK so update again.. not good news so far..

As far as adding refrigerant, while yes I was doing it can upside down, I was filling it extremely slowly as stated. I watched the moisture window and any time I started to see bubbles I'd cut it off. It would only seized when I got back into the car, and revved the engine a bit up to 1500-2500rpm. Never while I was standing outside of the car with it just idling.

I forgot to get my scan tool, so no update on that. I will try to get it tonight and scan for codes/pressure levels. Though with the scope camera down the vent, confirms blend doors are operating properly. And with some of the updates below, definitely seems like a physical issue to me, and not a sensor problem.

Alright so again, ran the car for 15 minutes with the AC on, while it was only blowing cool on the passengers side on my way home from work. Got home, shut car off, connected 4way gauges and 134 can. Started the car and let it run for 15 minutes idling in the driveway, AC on with blower fan at full speed, windows open and recirculation off. Weather today is 78F in the sun and 30% humidity. Pressures ended up settling around 35psi on low and 75-80psi on high side. Still blowing warm on drivers and coolish on passengers side.

Opened 134 can (the can right side up this time) and extremely slowly started adding some to the system via the 4way valve, barely adding 1psi at a time and then letting the system run for a few minutes. I did this until the low side reached about 45psi and kept checking the cabin temps in-between while also trying to hold RPMs around 1500-2000. Once I had it around 45psi, using my instant meat thermometer (lol, don't judge me, it's all I have right now and that's what soap is for) in the vents, both sides were blowing 45F. Very cold air just like the factory setup I'd expect. Held RPMs for a minute or so and all seemed fine.

Shut car off, disconnect gauges and put caps back on, etc. etc.. Grab wallet from inside and go to test drive the car. Start it up and it's blowing hot, but cooled down a little bit. Made it all of 20ft down my alley before the compressor seized up again..

Possible there's not enough oil? Should I be able to see oil in the moisture window of the 4way gauges? How would we go about making sure there's the right amount of oil (and not too much) with all the work we've already done? Maybe the compressor is damaged either from factory or from my negligence? It's not overly loud, but the compressor is a little "whiny" in a deeper tone, but it sounds just like our XC90 to be honest, and we've never had issues with that cars AC system. First time delving this deep into an AC system, so obviously I've made some mistakes.

And again, every single part I buy is from FCP. So their warranty makes getting things like a replacement compressor less of a headache, but obviously I still have to pay for labor. Thankfully, my mech gives me very good prices because he's a family friend, and he feels bad for me having this many issues over just trying to do regular upkeep.. But I don't want to waste his time either obviously.

[yanga001]

I would say the car is complaining about something. Your AC pressures seem way off at the moment. When i charged from empty, 1 can of R12A (CANUKISTAN) 6oz usually gets me to 2/3rds operational capacity, and a little extra will get it nice and chilly. When i charge, i usually monitor the car sensor pressure as my high side.

Are you sure your gauges are 100% accurate.

Looking at some online charts, at 78F 45PSI is on the high side, but your high pressure is extremely low. Either the compressor is toast or your gauges are not measuring properly.

https://www.acprocold.com/au/help-and-a ... ure-chart/

I believe you are consistently overcharging the system.

EDITED LINE FOR 45PSI NOT EXCEEDING THE RATING, BUT BEING ON THE HIGH SIDE

[soulvoid21]

I would say the car is complaining about something. Your AC pressures seem way off at the moment. When i charged from empty, 1 can of R12A (CANUKISTAN) 6oz usually gets me to 2/3rds operational capacity, and a little extra will get it nice and chilly. When i charge, i usually monitor the car sensor pressure as my high side.

Are you sure your gauges are 100% accurate.

Looking at some online charts, at 78F you should not exceed 45 PSI of refrigerant.

https://www.acprocold.com/au/help-and-a ... ure-chart/

I believe you are consistently overcharging the system.

The pressures seem off to me too. Low side is too high and High side is too low. My cans are 12oz but I barely added 1/4 can today.

I monitored both high and low side while filling, but turn off the flow for high side so it doesn't hit the can. But it still gives an active readout.

I can't be certain my gauges are 100% accurate. I have no other means to verify this.

I agree, 45PSI at these temps is too high. I will try to let a small amount out and see what happens, though when I did this before, I went back to getting inconsistent temps.