Hi all, this is my first time posting on this forum, but I've found it a helpful resource in the past. No doubt, some of the issues I am experiencing with my vehicle have been discussed here, but nothing I have found on this and other Volvo forums has quite explained it.
My '07 XC70 (244K miles) has started experiencing a couple of interesting issues that I can't quite seem to put my finger on and rather than starting to replace parts, I figured I would ask here in case anyone has had some or all of these issues, since I think they may be related. Car has been reliable with very few performance issues or CELs in the six years I have had it, except for that it seems slower on hills and accelerating at highway speeds compared with another P2 XC70 -- the difference felt like that between a turbocharged and non-turbocharged car of the same model.
An intermittent power surging started about a year ago but was very minor and infrequent at first. It has since become more frequent and more severe, being noticeable almost every time I drive the car. It is most noticeable when under load going up a steep hill, but as it has gotten worse, it is also sometimes present during acceleration on the highway. Seems to only be at low RPM, such as just before a downshift, which would at first clear out the surging. Twice there was a noticeable gain of power at which point the surging would stop, one time this was accompanied by a loud pop from the engine area (my mechanic suspected it was the gasket in the oil filler cap failing, which was soon replaced). The car would run smooth with no surging and increased power for at least a few hundred miles afterwards, then one day it would have less power and the surging would return soon after.
Through all of this there has also been an issue with sudden oil consumption. The oil level will stay almost constant for at least 1-2k miles at a time, then suddenly drop by 1-4 quarts (not exaggerating) -- add oil and it's fine for a while again. This has only happened during normal highway driving, not when pulling a trailer, during hot weather, high RPMs, etc. when I would expect there to be some oil consumption. Once I could smell oil while driving and noticed the level was low afterwards.
Last winter the surging got to the point of it being a violent bucking motion, accompanied by some power loss between surges, and seemingly a misfire (no CEL, and didn't check misfire counts at time). At the time the car also started and idled rough.
I replaced spark plugs (probably overdue at time), ignition coils, and found wiring harness for coils was missing a significant amount of insulation. Surging stopped, car ran smooth for a while but with noticeably less power, then surging started again and power increased, though surging was not as violent anymore and the car started and idled smoother.
Suspected a turbo issue, so I started by inspecting TCV -- cleaning it had no effect on performance but did flush out a drop or two of oil from valve (is this normal?).
Finally got a CEL that seems to be related to the surging issue, P0101 Mass or Volume Air Flow Range/Performance and ECM 121B Mass Air Flow Sensor. Disconnected power to MAF sensor, no change at idle but gave a MAF low input code within a few minutes -- drove a few miles with it and surging continued same as before.
Also finally was able to replicate surging with scanner plugged in -- noticed fluctuation in MAF (see image), also in short-term fuel trim (didn't get image of this, but it was a similar pattern around a baseline of ~+5%), while throttle was maxed out at 86.3% (which I understand is what some scanners report at full throttle).
LTFT stays right around 0% at idle and when driving. STFT at idle seems to quickly climb to 12-15% then quickly drop back to around 0%. Mostly stays between 8% and -8% while driving, but occasionally dips as low as -26%, seemingly when I let off the gas pedal after a hard acceleration.
Fuel pressure is a constant 43-45psi, which I at first dismissed because it was constant, but it seems that this is too low when read with an OBD-II scanner and instead should be around 55psi? I have also read that the pressure at the fuel rail should be 43-44psi, so is the sensor in my car at the rail as opposed to somewhere else?
O2 sensors seem to be behaving more or less normally -- though the upstream sensor oscillates between 0 and about 0.7 volts instead of 0 to close to 1 volt.
Replaced air filter, removed and inspected intake and intercooler pipes -- found that intake pipe was loose where it was attached to turbo, also blue colored line between TCV and intake pipe was loose at intake pipe. Some oil seeping from end of intake pipe, as well as around PTC valve grommet, so still another likely air leak.
Noticed film of oil at downstream end of intake pipe and throughout intercooler pipe. I understand some oil in pipes is normal, but this seemed a little on the excessive side. This work has not changed any sensor readings noticeably.
Yesterday, I was not able to replicate surging, but car had noticeably less power again, lower gas mileage, and TPS will not read higher than 40% when floored in 4th or 5th -- not until it downshifts into 3rd does it suddenly reach 86.3% when the other day it would reach at least close to 86.3% before downshifting and could be forced to reach full throttle by putting the car in 4th or 5th manually and flooring it. Is the car sensing an air leak and restricting how much the throttle can open? Why only sometimes?
I have suspected the PCV in the past (it's never been serviced, as far as I know), but it was tested around 230K and passed -- it has also passed a couple of glove tests since then.
I have gotten two P0420 Low Catalyst Efficiency codes in about 20K miles, both times they have quickly cleared themselves. Could the catalytic converter or another exhaust component be clogged? I found a forum post elsewhere about a similar surging and low power that was caused by clogged cat, but that person seemed to experience a constant and more severe loss of power.
I'm really not sure what to try next, but I don't want to just start replacing parts and hoping the issue will be resolved. Currently, my list of suspects for the surging are: bad MAF sensor, air leak at PTC valve, also potentially causing ECM to reduce throttle, bad TPS or throttle body issue, FPS, fuel pump (especially if this fuel pressure reading is actually too low), TCV, failing turbo. And for the oil consumption, I think it would have to either be a blown turbo seal or a PCV issue? Potentially stuck rings? Is there anything that sticks out to you as most likely culprits? Or anything else I should look into?
Have any of you had any similar issues and what were their causes? Do you think the surging and oil consumption may be related? Or am I looking at multiple unrelated issues due to age of vehicle? I'll try to post some more photos of scanner output, but I'm awaiting a new phone at the moment, so more photos will have to wait another day or two.
Intermittent surging under load 2007 XC70
- jonesg
- Posts: 3697
- Joined: 16 Jan 2008, 15:25
- Year and Model: 2004 V70
- Location: Northern maine.
- Has thanked: 73 times
- Been thanked: 532 times
Hi there, good first post.
I would want to find where the oil is going .
Cam seals, rear main seal or turbo drain pipe, those are 3 common areas to look at.
Also check the turbo wastegate actuator arm isn't flapping around loose.
A loose charged air pipe coupler can cause bad surging, I have to tighten mine on occasion.
Its not a bad idea to install a turbo gauge to monitor boost and vacuum , mine just sits on top of the dash next to the A pillar.
https://www.ipdusa.com/products/10122/I ... -for-Volvo
Also smoke test it.
I would want to find where the oil is going .
Cam seals, rear main seal or turbo drain pipe, those are 3 common areas to look at.
Also check the turbo wastegate actuator arm isn't flapping around loose.
A loose charged air pipe coupler can cause bad surging, I have to tighten mine on occasion.
Its not a bad idea to install a turbo gauge to monitor boost and vacuum , mine just sits on top of the dash next to the A pillar.
https://www.ipdusa.com/products/10122/I ... -for-Volvo
Also smoke test it.
- br0dy519
- Posts: 798
- Joined: 17 Dec 2019, 17:46
- Year and Model: 2004 XC70
- Location: Windsor, ON
- Has thanked: 132 times
- Been thanked: 126 times
Agreed with jonesg amazing first post great info and attention to detail. You have a few issues with your car.
1) The surging. Rule out basic stuff first like vacuum leaks. The hose tree under the intake manifold will be crumbling. Clean the MAF, clean the throttle body. If the intercooler hoses are covered in oil the butterfly plate certainly needs to be cleaned ASAP. My Bosch throttle body was bad and I chased that issue for like 3 years.
2) Oil consumption. I have never heard about such significant consumption. I'm surprised there is no leak anywhere. Check everywhere jones suggested. I have a RMS leak and just use heavier weight oil and top up 1L/2000km. Definitely do the PCV and change your banjo bolt to the newest version.
1) The surging. Rule out basic stuff first like vacuum leaks. The hose tree under the intake manifold will be crumbling. Clean the MAF, clean the throttle body. If the intercooler hoses are covered in oil the butterfly plate certainly needs to be cleaned ASAP. My Bosch throttle body was bad and I chased that issue for like 3 years.
2) Oil consumption. I have never heard about such significant consumption. I'm surprised there is no leak anywhere. Check everywhere jones suggested. I have a RMS leak and just use heavier weight oil and top up 1L/2000km. Definitely do the PCV and change your banjo bolt to the newest version.
04s60 2.4
04xc70 2.5t
04xc70 2.5t
prwood wrote:I wish I had a permanent car repair area that was covered, had a level surface, lighting and fans, a workbench, and tool cabinets. You know,like a garage. Much of my time during the job is spent hauling things up and down the stairs to the basement or in and out of the storage shed, or running back downstairs when I realize I need something else,or taking a break from standing out in the sun,or using flashlights or work lamps when it gets dark.
-
scot850
- Posts: 15483
- Joined: 05 Apr 2010, 14:46
- Year and Model: 2000 V70 R
- Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
- Has thanked: 2197 times
- Been thanked: 1851 times
What grade engine oil do you currently use on your car? 5W-30? Do you do the oil changes yourself or get someone else to do it?
One of my friends noticed a sudden increase on oil consumption after the last oil service on their low mileage Honda Oddity. It had been serviced at the Honda dealer. He then discovered they had changed to using 0W-20 oil on a car never designed to run on that oil. It was worst when on highway running. He returned to the 5W-30 specified for his car and consumption returned to normal.
Neil.
One of my friends noticed a sudden increase on oil consumption after the last oil service on their low mileage Honda Oddity. It had been serviced at the Honda dealer. He then discovered they had changed to using 0W-20 oil on a car never designed to run on that oil. It was worst when on highway running. He returned to the 5W-30 specified for his car and consumption returned to normal.
Neil.
2006 V70 2.5T AWD Polestar tune
2000 V70 R - still being an endless PITA
2006 XC70 - Our son now has this and still parked in our garage
2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 Limited
2015 Kia Sportage EX-L - Sold
1993 850 GLT -Sold
1998 V70 XC - Sold
1997 Volvo 850 SE NA - Went to niece in California - Sold
2000 V70 SE NA - Sold
2000 V70 R - still being an endless PITA
2006 XC70 - Our son now has this and still parked in our garage
2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 Limited
2015 Kia Sportage EX-L - Sold
1993 850 GLT -Sold
1998 V70 XC - Sold
1997 Volvo 850 SE NA - Went to niece in California - Sold
2000 V70 SE NA - Sold
Thanks to each of you for your suggestions.
I checked the coupler on the charged air pipe again, turns out the bottom pipe clamp was loose (I must have only checked and snugged up the top clamp). Drove the car to NY yesterday, no surging, increased power, getting 25-26mpg again, everything seemed good but this morning the surging returned on a local hill.
I found both pipe clamps on the charged air pipe coupler were not as tight as I left them, so I tightened them again (I expect they loosened due to thermal expansion) -- we'll see how it does tomorrow. I imagine I should probably replace this coupler as it does have some superficial cracks which I can see developing into a new air leak.
I have thought more about the oil consumption and am increasingly suspecting the PCV system. So I pulled off the fresh air pipe again because I hadn't checked if the breather tube connecting to the PTC was clogged. I was pleasantly surprised that this line looked clear, but there is clearly a significant amount of oil entering the fresh air pipe from the PCV. I also found a bad crack in the fresh air pipe at the turbo that was hidden by the pipe clamp. There's also a very small amount of oil leaking from where the air pipe attaches to the throttle body, so I'm sure that needs a cleaning. So it looks like oil is being dumped into the fresh air pipe by PCV and was leaking onto turbo where the pipe was loose/cracked. Is it normal for oil consumption from clogged PCV to be intermittent like this, or am I potentially looking at something else?
I have been doing my own oil changes for the last 3 years on this car, every 3-4k miles and always 5W-30.
No oil leak from cam seals (I think they were replaced at 205k), turbo drain pipe seems good, but I do appear to have a rear main seal leak that I didn't notice last time I changed the oil, though it may have been there. Definitely some fresh oil there, so I hope it's not new and about to get much worse. Put cardboard under the car last night, not a drop on it. How concerned should I be about a RMS leak like this? Just keep an eye on it and run a more viscous oil?
So I guess the next things on my list are going to be:
PCV service + new fresh air pipe with PTC
New charged air pipe coupler
Clean throttle body
Clean MAF
Install a boost pressure gauge
I checked the coupler on the charged air pipe again, turns out the bottom pipe clamp was loose (I must have only checked and snugged up the top clamp). Drove the car to NY yesterday, no surging, increased power, getting 25-26mpg again, everything seemed good but this morning the surging returned on a local hill.
I found both pipe clamps on the charged air pipe coupler were not as tight as I left them, so I tightened them again (I expect they loosened due to thermal expansion) -- we'll see how it does tomorrow. I imagine I should probably replace this coupler as it does have some superficial cracks which I can see developing into a new air leak.
I have thought more about the oil consumption and am increasingly suspecting the PCV system. So I pulled off the fresh air pipe again because I hadn't checked if the breather tube connecting to the PTC was clogged. I was pleasantly surprised that this line looked clear, but there is clearly a significant amount of oil entering the fresh air pipe from the PCV. I also found a bad crack in the fresh air pipe at the turbo that was hidden by the pipe clamp. There's also a very small amount of oil leaking from where the air pipe attaches to the throttle body, so I'm sure that needs a cleaning. So it looks like oil is being dumped into the fresh air pipe by PCV and was leaking onto turbo where the pipe was loose/cracked. Is it normal for oil consumption from clogged PCV to be intermittent like this, or am I potentially looking at something else?
I have been doing my own oil changes for the last 3 years on this car, every 3-4k miles and always 5W-30.
No oil leak from cam seals (I think they were replaced at 205k), turbo drain pipe seems good, but I do appear to have a rear main seal leak that I didn't notice last time I changed the oil, though it may have been there. Definitely some fresh oil there, so I hope it's not new and about to get much worse. Put cardboard under the car last night, not a drop on it. How concerned should I be about a RMS leak like this? Just keep an eye on it and run a more viscous oil?
So I guess the next things on my list are going to be:
PCV service + new fresh air pipe with PTC
New charged air pipe coupler
Clean throttle body
Clean MAF
Install a boost pressure gauge
- jonesg
- Posts: 3697
- Joined: 16 Jan 2008, 15:25
- Year and Model: 2004 V70
- Location: Northern maine.
- Has thanked: 73 times
- Been thanked: 532 times
My concern would be the oil loss, the other stuff is fairly simple, non of that stuff will grenade the engine.
I'm not convinced the oil wet spot you show is from the RMS.
theres a weep hole at the engine/trans joint, it will come out of that hole if RMS is bad.
See the video below by robert spinner.
I'm not convinced the oil wet spot you show is from the RMS.
theres a weep hole at the engine/trans joint, it will come out of that hole if RMS is bad.
See the video below by robert spinner.
Here's another angle:
It looks like that's the weep hole for the RMS at top right. Different engine/trans than video but looks like the same place. I'm assuming the oil is coming out of that, though it looks like most of it's slightly further forward. I also see that mine's missing one of the bolts...maybe it was worked on at some point before I had it? I don't think I have any maintenance records from previous owner.
In other news, my tightening of clamps seems to have made the surging worse, so now it's happening under most acceleration and hills. Must be a crack in the coupler or something.
In other news, my tightening of clamps seems to have made the surging worse, so now it's happening under most acceleration and hills. Must be a crack in the coupler or something.
I can't seem to make the car drip any oil, and the leak doesn't look any bigger. So I guess I'll just keep an eye on it and see if running heavier weight oil and the PCV service make any difference.
Cleaned throttle body -- was fairly dirty with oil on intake side, seems to be idling a little smoother, but otherwise no difference.
I installed a boost/vacuum gauge today. Warm idle at 19-20in vac, 24-25in with foot off gas while driving -- so doesn't look like a vacuum leak. It seems like I have to give the car a lot of gas for the turbo to kick in at all, and it is now alternating between giving me partial or full throttle again in a single trip. Partial throttle (~60% with accelerator floored) gives 4psi boost. Surging presents as a sudden increase in boost to 14-16psi, then back down to 4psi in 5th gear, once it downshifts it jumps up to 20psi if I hold the pedal down long enough -- no CEL. When the car was running smooth with increased power in the winter it felt like it did around 15psi boost, so I'm guessing that's where it is supposed to be? So bad TCV or BPS seems the most likely cause then? Could still be an air intake leak, but I'm beginning to doubt that. Any other suggestions?
Cleaned throttle body -- was fairly dirty with oil on intake side, seems to be idling a little smoother, but otherwise no difference.
I installed a boost/vacuum gauge today. Warm idle at 19-20in vac, 24-25in with foot off gas while driving -- so doesn't look like a vacuum leak. It seems like I have to give the car a lot of gas for the turbo to kick in at all, and it is now alternating between giving me partial or full throttle again in a single trip. Partial throttle (~60% with accelerator floored) gives 4psi boost. Surging presents as a sudden increase in boost to 14-16psi, then back down to 4psi in 5th gear, once it downshifts it jumps up to 20psi if I hold the pedal down long enough -- no CEL. When the car was running smooth with increased power in the winter it felt like it did around 15psi boost, so I'm guessing that's where it is supposed to be? So bad TCV or BPS seems the most likely cause then? Could still be an air intake leak, but I'm beginning to doubt that. Any other suggestions?
-
- Similar Topics
- Replies
- Views
- Last post
-
- 22 Replies
- 1139 Views
-
Last post by abscate
-
- 7 Replies
- 2174 Views
-
Last post by Reys
-
- 14 Replies
- 2753 Views
-
Last post by zanzabar
-
- 10 Replies
- 2766 Views
-
Last post by briankorte
-
- 8 Replies
- 3084 Views
-
Last post by Krons






