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V70 XC Wagon 1998 Severe cutout/run rich/intermittent stall

Help, Advice and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's P80 platform cars -- Volvo's 1990s "bread and butter" cars -- powered by the ubiquitous and durable Volvo inline 5-cylinder engine.

1992 - 1997 850, including 850 R, 850 T-5R, 850 T-5, 850 GLT
1997 - 2000 S70, S70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70, V70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70-XC
1997 - 2004 C70

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Tronman
Posts: 7
Joined: 28 February 2009
Year and Model: 1998 V70 XC
Location: Preston, Wa

V70 XC Wagon 1998 Severe cutout/run rich/intermittent stall

Post by Tronman »

Greetings

I am working on my wife's 1998 Volvo V70 XC station wagon, Cannondale Edition, and it's giving me fits..

I was a mechanic for about a decade, and I did a lot of driveability repair-but almost exclusively american cars. We had an excellent Volvo place near our shop, and we sent the Volvo stuff to them. That was in Salt lake, in the late 1990s. Now we live just outside Seattle, Washington. Sadly, Herm's Volvo in SLC, UT is no longer an option :-(

Now, I have her car here, and it has about 113K miles on it. Before this, it has never given a day's trouble. We are the third owners, this car has lived in Seattle all its life, and was bought new at Ravenna Volvo. The emissions label is missing, so I don't know if it is fed or CA emissions, but it has the turbo option, AWD, automatic, and has a distributor ignition versus coil on plug.

It started out as running severely rich, just spewing black smoke out the tailpipe. It would somewhat run if you mashed the gas, but it barely made it home. I have an Innova OBD II scan tool, which seems to correctly negotiate the ISO 9141 protocol and get codes and live data from the computer. At that time I plugged in the scanner, and no codes were given except for an O2 sensor code, the front sensor. That kinda made sense, because I know the turbo's oil seal leaks too much oil out the exhaust side, and could have been plugging up the sender. Still, a slow O2 sensor shouldn't make this much trouble..

I checked the fuel pressure and even while it was cutting out, it had about 37psi, which seemed about right. It also held pressure for over an hour (before I disconnected the gauge). I thought that meant the regulator and injectors were OK for leakage, but just to be sure, I took the injectors out and had them flow tested and ultrasonically cleaned. They said one of them was kind of sticky but otherwise fine.

While there I replaced the plugs and wires, the wires were factory and the plugs were pretty gas fouled and needed it anyway. The oil cap had been leaking slightly and the area underneath the plastic cover was full of oil, so I cleaned that out. There was also an odd little rubber plug n the center of the valve cover, which seemed to plug an exhaust passage. I re-siliconed that back in too. The cap and rotor didn't look too bad so I cleaned them up, but now I will replace them anyway just to make sure.

Meanwhile, I got all this done and started it back up. Well, I tried, but was getting almost no spark at all. The injectors clicked, the primary circuit was triggering, so I unbolted the coil from the car-it started right up! I could touch the coil bracket to the body and make the car die every time. The coil was leaking secondary current through its metal core and out to the bracket/ground. Problem solved!

A used coil from Northern European auto wrecking was installed, and the car ran great :-) I gave it back to my wife, who drove it to work the next day. On the way home, it did the exact same thing it originally did, cutting out severely (it feels like ECM fuel cut, just nothing happening at all till the engine dies or comes close to it) alternating with running very rich. I tried unbolting the coil and running the car with it sitting on the plastic air cleaner housing, as before. No change this time.

So this time, it throws a MAF sensor code, and the live data indicates the sensor isn't putting anything out, or else it held steady at 30 lbs/hr airflow-with the engine idling. This makes sense, and from what I hear it's a fairly common failure so I replace it. I start the car, clear the codes, it runs OK, so I test drive it. For about a mile, then it dies, then sort of restarts, then strands me and I have to walk home, but only half a mile. At that time, the check engine light comes right on.

I'm getting a code for the turbocharger solenoid A reading too low. That code is also intermittent. Then the MAF code returns, also intermittent. I'm starting to think wiring or ECU itself, but the Haynes manual is incomplete in its ECU wiring schematic. Volvos seem to be wired a lot different from the domestic cars I used to work on. So other than getting continuity from the ECU's harness ground pins to the engine block or to battery negative, and getting good voltage to the ECU harness terminals, I'm running out of stuff to check. Tonight, it was running bad (when it would run at all!) with no trouble codes at all, and no check engine light on either. It's getting more and more neurotic all the time!

The new wires I put in were NGK and not Bosch, but they were resistance wires like the originals. Hopefully that rules out electrical interference.

I also notice that when it is running bad, the temp sensor usually indicates the correct engine temp but once it read 201 degrees when I could put my hand on the block under the intake manifold and it was just warm to the touch. The IAT always has read correctly (between 37 and 50 degrees, it is winter here) and the O2 sensors always fluctuate quickly between .1 and .8 volts. The problem can happen cold or warm, by the way.

From the limited schematics I do have, it seems like the turbo wastegate solenoid (the wastegate itself functions correctly, btw) and the MAF sensor are on the same circuit, they seem to ground in a common way to the ECU.

Finally, I also notice that often when it dies completely, the computer scan tool loses communication with the car, like the ECU just shuts off completely.

Could this be in any way related to the coil issue? Could the whole ECU somehow be grounding through the power stage connector's ground circuit? As in, it shouldn't be exclusively doing so?

I joined this forum because I didn't know where else to ask. Sorry for the long post, I tried to include everything I could think of. Thanks for reading, hope someone here can help!

Ozark Lee
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Post by Ozark Lee »

I'll try to pick this apart, more information is better than not enough. I have no experience with the S/V series but your engine should be very close to my 850's in the '98 model year.
it had about 37psi
That is a fuzz low. The pressure should be closer to 44 psi. 43.9 is book spec but most of the gauges aren't that precise and unless they are very expensive they usually aren't that accurate. The auto parts store gauges I use to figure out whether it has pressure or not but even the $30.00 cheapies will get me within + or - 1 PSI.

I was thinking a FPR diaphragm breach sucking raw fuel to the intake manifold until you said that it was holding fuel pressure with the key off.
While there I replaced the plugs and wires, the wires were factory and the plugs were pretty gas fouled and needed it anyway. The oil cap had been leaking slightly and the area underneath the plastic cover was full of oil, so I cleaned that out.
What kind of plugs and what kind of wires did you use for the replacements? The multi-pronged Bosch Platinums in my experience are death on contact. I have not used them but even the Bosch single prong plugs have been trouble. I have had the best luck with Bougicord (OEM) plug wires and Bosch FR7DC copper plugs. Gap them at 0.028 and error to the low side if you error. I tired using Bosch Platinum II plugs and brand new Bosch plug wires on my '94 - lesson learned. The car would barely run after about 500 miles.

Jumping the order I found this nugget:
The new wires I put in were NGK and not Bosch, but they were resistance wires like the originals. Hopefully that rules out electrical interference.
I've never tried NGK wires but these cars are very picky about the wires. The Bosch set of wires that I paid a premium for figuring that they were better were not better.

Elaborating on the oil pooling on the top of the head it sounds like a PCV issue. Replacing the PCV is a heck of a lot cheaper than replacing the rear main seal on the motor which is what will happen next. After you replace the PCV you should also snag a new oil filler gasket.
There was also an odd little rubber plug n the center of the valve cover, which seemed to plug an exhaust passage. I re-siliconed that back in too.
:?:

I'm trying to figure out what you are seeing, a picture is worth 1,000 words. Is there a rubber hose that comes out from below the intake manifold at the oil trap that hooks up to a nipple on the top of the motor?

For some strange reason there is a hole in the top of the cam tower that looks like something should be there but it has no function other than to gather all of the oil that is spewing out of the oil filler cap after the PCV clogs up. Some of the heads have that and some don't - I have no idea why it was ever there.

It sounds like you have sorted the coil problem unless you replaced a now known bad part with a new, soon to be known bad part - I doubt it.

Have you tried to just unplug the MAF? If you unplug it ant the car idles just fine that may be your culprit. Unplugging the MAF altogether will set a CEL but you indicated that you have a scan tool to reset it.
Finally, I also notice that often when it dies completely, the computer scan tool loses communication with the car, like the ECU just shuts off completely.
Check the battery cables, particularly the secondary leads that may or may not be bolted to the main lugs. The main positive cable lug that goes into the fuse box is often trouble as well. Check and clean the ground wires where they mate to the chassis.

...Lee
'94 850 N/A 5 speed
'96 Platinum Edition Turbo
Previous:
1999 V70XC - Nautic Blue - Totaled while parked.
1999 V70XC - RIP - Wrecked Parts Car.
1998 S70 T5
1996 850 N/A
1989 740 GLT
1986 740 GLT
1972 142 Grand Luxe

a2matt
Posts: 7
Joined: 27 January 2009
Year and Model: V70 GLT 1998
Location: Ann Arbor, MI

Post by a2matt »

This happened to me 3 years ago at 114k miles (funny how that works). The shop replaced:

Front & rear 02 sensors
Air Pump & Air Pump check valve
Charcoal canister hose.

They charged me a mere $1700 for this fixit job.

If you're going to do this yourself, I'd start by replacing the
coolant temp sensor under the thermostat
. It could be bad since you say the temp is not reading properly. Changing the thermostat / sensor is an easy repair which probably needs to be done anyway, even if it's not what's causing your issues.
http://www.eeuroparts.com/Main/PartDeta ... id=9186486

If that doesn't do the trick, change the front 02 sensor. While you've got the intake manifold off, you might as well do the PCV system, too.

Also, swap out your wires / plugs / rotor / cap with OEM. These cars are finicky.
The OEM parts aren't cheap, but they seem to work well. And...changing out your vac lines for silicone may make a big difference in performance if your old lines are cracked and allowing unmetered air into the system. I just did a lot of these repairs and they aren't that hard and my car is running smooth.

Tronman
Posts: 7
Joined: 28 February 2009
Year and Model: 1998 V70 XC
Location: Preston, Wa

Post by Tronman »

Here are a few tidbits based on the replies so far (Thanks guys!)

First the plugs, I used the catalog specific NGKs, just the regular single electrode style, like what it had before. Those Bosch platinum things had a horrible rep back in the day, and it sounds like they're still junk today. The new set up made the car run like a champ till the computer issue came up again. Also, the original wires were not factory-I've heard the name Bougicord mentioned, but it had Bosch. Those were running fine for years till this trouble started. I just assumed they were factory from the old circa 1998 date code on them-meaning they must have been replaced once many years ago.

The rubber plug is located in the top of the valve cover, between and just forward of number two and number three plugs. Exhaust comes out of it when it's open-there's no oil around or in the hole, just exhaust. Strange.

The PCV system is working, there is suction at the dipstick when the engine is idling.

The original Volvo labeled battery was getting weak, so I replaced it with a good Optima red top (good enough to crank the V8 engine in a 1978 Cadillac for extended periods) which was freshly charged. The cables all are great-no corrosion or looseness at the battery, body grounds (yes, I checked those too-even the one under the passenger's kick panel) or the fuse panel. The engine itself has at least two copper ground wires which are clean and tight. I'll do voltage drop tests today to confirm it.

All the vacuum lines are still soft and not leaking, that was also an early item that I checked.

I can hear the air pump working, it goes on and off at various times. Both 02 sensors vary in voltage quickly as they should, within .1 and .8 volts, and they start working within a few seconds of the engine running from cold.

I guess I could change the temp sensor as well, but it looks like someone already did, and I'm kinda getting sick of throwing parts at this thing, not to mention running out of money.

What I'd like is a real, complete, ECU wiring schem including where the various harness connectors are, and where the grounds are, so I can physically check for continuity between each sensor and the ECU connector pins. This is really behaving like there's a bad sensor ground wire somewhere, (see erratic sensor readings from new parts..) and no amount of new parts is gonna fix that. I'm short of funds, so really motivated to find the solution that involves spending the money in the right place, in the first place :-) I'm almost ready to open the ECU box and start looking for component level problems..

Ozark Lee
MVS Moderator
Posts: 14798
Joined: 7 September 2006
Year and Model: Many Volvos
Location: USA Midwest
Has thanked: 4 times
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Post by Ozark Lee »

What I'd like is a real, complete, ECU wiring schem including where the various harness connectors are, and where the grounds are, so I can physically check for continuity between each sensor and the ECU connector pins.
Ask and you shall receive.

The site is in Poland and the server is very slow. It will also take a ton of time after the download for it to launch the .pdf file. Be very patient.

I don't speak Polish but the schematics are listed by model on the links in the Samochody Osobowe section. The manuals are in English.

...Lee
'94 850 N/A 5 speed
'96 Platinum Edition Turbo
Previous:
1999 V70XC - Nautic Blue - Totaled while parked.
1999 V70XC - RIP - Wrecked Parts Car.
1998 S70 T5
1996 850 N/A
1989 740 GLT
1986 740 GLT
1972 142 Grand Luxe

Tronman
Posts: 7
Joined: 28 February 2009
Year and Model: 1998 V70 XC
Location: Preston, Wa

Post by Tronman »

Update:

I put in the new cap n rotor, it made no difference :-(

However, I did unplug the MAF sensor from its harness. Started the car.. it runs great! I took it out and drove it-no issues. I got on it, the turbo is fine, no DTCs about the solenoid. In fact, it runs better than it has for a long time!

So, how long can I drive this thing with the MAF disconnected? Should I just take the expensive new part back, and put the old one back in, saving the $130?

I know the 'right' way to do it is to trace the MAF sensor wiring clear back to the ECU and find the flaw. But it runs, and I've been doing this for several months now, off and on. My wife really misses the heated seats :-/

paulcu
Posts: 5
Joined: 24 June 2009
Year and Model: 1998 XC70 AWD
Location: Illinois

Post by paulcu »

FIXED!

I've been having the intermittent dying 1998 XC70. Whenever I have the car it dies. I take it into my mechanic and it runs fine---of course. My mechanic was recommending replacing many of the same things listed in this discussion but the car wasn't dying for him and he wasn't getting any error codes. I forwarded this discussion (re; the MAF) to him and after he had the car for a week or so it finally died on him, we replaced the MAF and it's been running fine ever since. What a head scratcher.

Thanks tronman!
1998 XC70 AWD

paulcu
Posts: 5
Joined: 24 June 2009
Year and Model: 1998 XC70 AWD
Location: Illinois

Post by paulcu »

Just an FYI that now 2 years after replacing the MAF, the car runs great.
1998 XC70 AWD

supclean
Posts: 2
Joined: 23 August 2010
Year and Model: xc70 1999
Location: Jindabyne

Post by supclean »

Hello
I would just like to add this seems to be a common problem
We clean the maf and reuse
Also have never pinpointed the problem Only theory we have is it seems to be getting some sort of blowback from the turbo

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