1997 850 Bluetooth obd2 doesnt connect to the ECU

[tzanis]

Update.

So, after some time passed I thought I would give it a shot trying to see what is up with the obd2 port.

Here is a photo of what the obd2 port looks like. -> http://puu.sh/gegI6.jpg

#tbt Last summer I bought a usb elm327 which I believe had a factory mistake on its plug, so when I plugged it in my obd2 port it got stuck, and because I tried it many times, I believed that my port got effed, or a pin or cable got pinched. So, I took the coin holder and cigarette light thing out, after taking the small push glove box out, and checked if it was ok. -> http://puu.sh/gegKE.jpg

It looked fine, but I thought I would replace, so I went to the salvage yard, and pulled another plug from an 850 and wired it up correctly and nicely, I am sure 100% about that. So I tried with my laptop with scan xl and obd auto doctor to connect with my friend's usb elm327, with which I had read some codes when I firstly bought the car, and I didnt get connected. So I tried my proven working mini bluetooth elm327, and tried to get connected with my phone on the Torque app, with two profiles, one forcing the iso9141-2 and one with an automatic protocol search, I waited and it would still not get connected to the ecu.

http://puu.sh/gegP8.jpg

http://puu.sh/gegQO.jpg

http://puu.sh/gejb2.jpg Torque has these and much more protocols that is testing. I am not really sure if on the volvo, I need to be using the iso9141-2 protocol with certain parameters, like baud rates and stuff.

Btw, I need to apologize to member esl because, he spent time trying to show me how to get the mileage from the obd2, while I couldnt even get connected. (sorry for being a noob)

Ending this update, I am officially stuck, and I dont know what to do for it to work. Also, I do all maintenance at the parking lot so I do not visit any shops, I will visit a chain shop in here in Canada called Midas, they have a coupon online for a free Check engine check, and hope that, it just needs a more powerful tool to get connected to it.

Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

Thanks for reading.

[misha]

Did you checked the fuse in fuse box under the hood?
Maybe the one for diagnostics is burnt.I think the same fuse is for cig. lighter or glovebox light.

[tzanis]

yes, the cigarette lighter fuse is ok. I checked it. I checked multiple fuses a few days ago, and non were blown. I will double check that glovebox one you re talking about. the adapter status remains the same as the first picture in the first post, and the lights of the adapter are blinking. :/

[esl_97_850_T5]

On my USA '97 850 T5, the fuse for the OBDII socket is fuse 15 and the fuse for the cigarette lighter is fuse 30 -- two very different fuses.

On my 97 850, if fuse 30 (cigarette lighter) is removed, the OBDII socket will still operate.

However, if fuse 15 (OBDII socket, etc) is removed, while fuse 30 (cigarette lighter) is intact, then the OBDII socket will not operate.

tzanis, do you know which fuse operates the OBDII socket in your car -- either because your Volvo User's Manual says so, or the label on the fuse box says so?

[esl_97_850_T5]

tzanis,

The other obvious power oriented questions are...

Q1. Are you turning the ignition switch to pos II before you try to connect to the car's ECUs?

Q2. Alternatively, are you turning the engine on before you try to connect to the car's ECUs?

Q3. Or are you attempting to connect to the car's ECUs while the ignition is turned off -- thinking (erroneously) that because you see lights on the scanning device, everything is powered up properly to start scanning?

You can talk to an ELM327 device with ignition off, but you can't talk to the car's ECUs with the ignition off.

esl_97_850_T5

[tzanis]

Yes, the same is on mine. Fuse number 15 is diagnostics etc, and 30 is cigarette lighter. I checked them today, and swapped them with others too, they were working before, they worked now too, fuses were not blown. I dont think the fuses are the problem. There is one thing pending, and that's to go to the shop and have it checked there.

Any thoughts welcome, and I will keep the post up to date.

I believe I do it the correct way, which is, plug adapter -> turn ignition to On position -> connect phone and open torque -> try to get connection to my car. I have also tried turning the car on as an alternative.

[misha]

Key in position II,right before starting the car....all little lights on the dash are lit?

[tzanis]

LoL yes

[esl_97_850_T5]

tzanis,

Here's various comments, answers to some of your questions, and ideas which might help in figuring out your inability to connect...

1. Thanks for answering misha's question. I also had the same question. I think misha was serious about it. I certainly was. In any case, glad you had a good laugh at it, instead of taking it condescendingly. It helps in understanding if there are "power / OBDII pin 16" problems vs. "OBDII pin 7 to/from the ECUs" problems vs. something else.

2. The sequence you went through -- "plug adapter -> turn ignition to On position -> connect phone and open torque -> try to get connection to my car" -- should work. If you replace "connect phone" with "plug in USB cable", your sequence is a simplification of the sequence that I most commonly use. I've seen several places where the "correct" sequence is stated by manufacturers or vendors of OBDII scanners, etc. But I've discovered from multitudinous scans that there's a lot of flexibility to the sequence (at least on my 97 850 T5). I've turned the ignition to pos II or turned on the engine before & after plugging in one or more adapters, either into the car's OBDII port or the legs of an OBDII Y connector, or into USB ports. I've run the software anywhere in that sequence. Many combinations work. But the sequence you followed is probably the best sequence to follow to establish the safest pattern to lessen the possibility of damaging some component of the system (especially when some other component in the overall system has shorted).

3. To answer your previous "which protocol to use with Torque?" question...

With your 97 850, use Torque's "ISO 9141-2 (5b init, 10.4k baud)" protocol. None other. And don't use automatic protocol search. That's the most reliable, most consistent way to connect for either the OBDII emission diagnostics or the KWPD3B0 communication.

4. It is unlikely you're ELM327 is setup for anything different than 10400 baud when using ISO 9141-2 (unless you've used some ATPP command to do that). However, the responses to the ATPPS command will verify if an inappropriate and unworkable speed change has been made (or if some other ATPP setting is inhibiting the connection). If you've changed PP 0C to a baud rate lower than 38400 baud, I'd highly suspect that. If you've changed PP 16 or used the the AT IB command, then that's very likely your cultprit. The only thing that will work with the Motronic 4.3 and Motronic 4.4 with factory software is the 10400 baud setting which an ELM327 clone (and essentially every OBDII scanner) will come from the factory programmed for ISO 9141-2 communication.

5. Let us know how the Midas trip goes. It would be nice if they had a VST-equivalent scanner and would read your mileage for free. But it's doubtful that they do. Just in case they do have something that can read the mileage from the COMBI, be sure to go in with jimmy57's instructions in hand, since even if they do have a VST or VST-equivalent scanner, they might not know how to retrieve the mileage. You wouldn't want to waste a free scan and not get the mileage read, if that was possible with their tool, but not possible due to their ignorance of how to do it. Hopefully, something will come from the trip. Even if they can't read the mileage, or even if they can't read any of the KWPD3B0-conversant ECUs, maybe they can get your OBDII scanning going (if that's possible). Maybe they can see some simple problem that you've been somehow blinded from seeing. Or maybe they can figure out some complex, weirdo problem that your car has. Take what they say with a grain of salt. Don't consider them experts on 850s. Don't argue with them if they don't receive any info which you might provide to them. Good luck.

6. Since Canada didn't require OBDII emission diagnostics until 1998, are you absolutely sure that your car can do that? What specifically was it that you had successfully scanned in the past? Seems like you said you cleared codes. Were they emission codes in the form Pnnnn (like P0133 or P0172 or something like that)? Or were they the 3-digit Volvo DTC codes? Or what?

7. It really would help to see a complete listing of the commands that you are sending to the ELM327 -- either interactively via a terminal emulator or programmatically as recorded by some program's log -- along with the responses returned by the ELM327!!!

MUCH, MUCH can be determined from that. So far you haven't submitted any logs of what Scan XL or OBD Auto Doctor or Torque did. From my brief research of those programs, I saw no evidence that those programs even have a logging facility which includes, at a minimum, the amount of detail that the ScanTool.net oriented OBDwiz program does to aid in debugging connection problems and shows almost all the communication to/from the car. And you have apparently not used any terminal emulator that can record the ELM327 commands and responses.

Have you tried the ElmBasic Android app? It's apparently a fairly recent Android-based ELM327 terminal emulator. ElmBasic does not suffer from the adware that is now included with the ELM 327 Terminal Android app.

Or, on the PC have you tried ScanTool.net's (Windows based) STNterm terminal emulator? That would be even better for logging purposes, since it has a scrollable buffer that can record the ELM327 commands and responses. Then the contents of the STNterm scrollable buffer can be copied, then pasted into this thread or into kwpd3b0_interpreter.html.

8. What does the ELM327 report as responses for ATPPS?

9. What does ELM327 report as ATRV responses -- both at engine pos II and with the engine running? Get 5-10 readings in both situations. Also, see what the ATRV responses are when different equipment is turned on and off.

10. Try the following (preferably with STNterm logging it) to document ATPP settings:

ATZ
ATL1
ATE1 (use ATE0 if you are seeing double instances of the ELM327 commands)
ATI
ATPPS
ATRV

then post it here (and/or kwpd3b0_interpreter.html). Then try to determine if you can connect for OBDII emission diagnostics (without headers displayed, then with headers displayed):

ATZ
ATL1
ATE1
ATDP
ATSP 3
ATDP
0100
0101
03
07
ATH1
0100
0101
0105
010C
03
07
ATRV

then post it here (and/or kwpd3b0_interpreter.html). Then try KWPD3B0 connections to ECUs 51 (COMBI), 7A (Motronic 4.4), 58 (SRS), and 01 (ABS):

ATZ
ATL1
ATE1
ATSP 3
ATH1
ATAL
ATKW0
ATTA 13
ATRA 13
ATAT 0
ATIIA 51
ATWM 82 51 13 A1
ATSH 83 51 13
B903
B9F0
AE01
ATSH 84 51 13
A50701
ATPC
-- Wait 6 seconds.
ATIIA 7A
ATWM 82 7A 13 A1
ATSH 83 7A 13
B9F0
AE01
ATPC
-- Wait 6 seconds.
ATIIA 58
ATWM 82 58 13 A1
ATSH 83 58 13
B9F0
AE01
ATPC
-- Wait 6 seconds.
ATIIA 01
ATWM 82 01 13 A1
ATSH 83 01 13
B9F0
AE01
ATRV

then post it here (and/or kwpd3b0_interpreter.html).

You really need to try talking to multiple ECUs which use OBDII pin 7 to establish if all of them fail.

Neither Torque, nor Scan XL, nor OBD Auto Doctor can do that last section of ELM327 commands that attempts to talk to 4 different 97 Volvo 850 ECUs.

You have to issue those commands/requests interactively via a terminal emulator talking with an ELM327 device.

Or you have to issue them programmatically using volvo850diag talking with an ELM327 device.

Or you have to effectively issue them (by issuing the same info that the ELM327 sends to the car) with Vol-FCR or Brick-Diag Free using whatever VAG/COM KKL cable (or equivalent adapter) that works with your versions of each of those 2 programs. The only exception to the last sentence is that Vol-FCR and Brick-Diag Free do not issue the (what looks like in hex "83 51 13 B9 03 A3") 6-byte equivalent of the ECU 51 B903 (Read Vehicle Mileage) request since it's not part of Vol-FCR's or Brick-Diag Free's pushbutton functions.

11. What kind of ECM do you have?
- Have you opened up the ECU box lid (behind the windshield wiper fluid fillup tank) and taken a picture of the numbers recorded on the ECU(s)?
- Do you have a Motronic 4.3 or Motronic 4.4? How did you make that evaluation?

12. If you have a Motronic 4.3, have you used a flashing LED tool to read/clear its DTCs using OBDII pins 3, 5, and 16?

13. Have you tried a VAG/COM KKL FTDI cable with Vol-FCR Demo or Brick-Diag Free to talk to any of the KWPD3B0-conversant ECUs?

14. Best yet (if you want me to assist in any debugging), have you tried volvo850diag with your friend's USB ELM327 or your Bluetooth ELM327? volvo850diag's log will record essentially everything that I am able to use in helping to further isolate your connection problem. That's a much more useful approach than even the STNterm approach. With volvo850diag, you can test OBDII emission diagnostics, KWPD3B0 communication, and you can see *ALL* the ELM327 commands and responses. volvo850diag comes distributed able to work automatically with a CP210x based ELM327 clone USB cable. But it can be easily adapted for OBDLink SX USB devices using instructions in the readme. Furthermore, it can be easily adapted for other Bluetooth devices after first determining a) the COM port #, b) default speed between the ELM327 device and its "host" laptop / tablet / phone, c) special COM port name (eg, \Silabser0, \VCP0, \BthModem0, etc).

15. In early January, you said "Tried to force ISO 9141-2 protocol to connect, with an app called OBD auto doctor, it tries to connect, and then it ends up disconnected." Question: Did it connect? Yes or no. Or did it fail to connect? Yes or no. Or did it connect for a while, then disconnect 10 seconds later or 50 seconds later or 500 seconds later? If the ELM327 response was one of these:

BUS INIT: ERROR
or
BUS INIT: .ERROR
or
BUS INIT: ..ERROR
or
BUS INIT: ...ERROR

then it never did connect. And if the response was:

BUS INIT: STOPPED
or
BUS INIT: .STOPPED

then it very likely never connected. But if the response was:

BUS INIT: ...OK

then it did connect.

16. When you posted several pictures 2-3 days ago, you said " I tried my proven working mini bluetooth elm327". Why do you say it is "proven working"? So far I've seen absolutely *NO* evidence that its transmitter and/or receiver are working on OBDII pin 7. Has it been shown to be "proven working" anytime in the last week or so? Are you testing it on another car? If so, does the other car use the ISO 9141-2 protocol? I can see that it is probably working with respect to communicating between Torque and the ELM327. Your very first photo in the thread revealed that. So I accept that much.

But it would still be better to see the ELM327 commands and responses. Seeing the Torque display is like hearing "the summation of an expert witness" in a courtroom. Seeing the ELM327 commands and responses transcribed from an Android phone screen is like "eye witness testimony of someone that easily forgets details and or describes them potentially inadequately" since the transcription process to an MVS post is prone to typo errors. Seeing the ELM327 commands and responses that have been copied from a STNterm scrollable log buffer or a volvo850diag log file comes fairly close to "watching all the security videos from all different angles", enabling you to see the entire sequence of events (though the timing between the events will be generally uncertain in the STNterm log, and somewhat more certain in a volvo850diag log). The judge and jury will want to see the latter evidence -- the copied/pasted log files -- to best determine the facts in the case.

esl_97_850_T5

[tzanis]

Thanks for the really detailed answer you are putting into this, and of course your time.

1+2+3+4. I "laughed" because I did not think it was very serious, but also thought I am following the correct basic steps to connecting. I used two profiles on Torque, one being the default automatic, and the other using the ISO9141-2 protocol, on which I have not changed any settings in, and it is using the defaults 5b init 10.4k baud rate.

5. I will let you know, and I will take the instructions with me.

6. I have used ScanXL 12 months ago, to retrieve a code with a description of a faulty Coolant temp sensor, which I replaced along with a thermostat, and cleared the cel. At the time, yes, I got fully connected, with the usb elm327. I cannot say 100% but the code should have been P0123.

7 + 16. I will try to export as many logs as I can and put them on here for further investigation. Also I will try the apps you suggest, and I really like the description you made, and is right, about posting the logs, rather than explaining with words what is going on.

11+12. I will take pics of the ecus and research them, and upload them on here for verification. I have not tried the 3 pin tool. I will check with a polymeter to verify that there is signal at those 3.

13. I have not.

15. I meant to explain the exact same process that continues to happen till now while trying to connect. No connection has been established even for 1 second. Bus init error as far as I remember.

16. By saying proven working, I mean that this bluetooth adapter has been successfully connected to several other cars, my friend's 02 e46, his dad's volvo s40 02, my dad's 99 corolla, my friend's audi a4 05. I am talking about this exact one, not just a similar one or same.

Again, thanks for your time and detailed answers always. I will try what you suggested. Any other topics I did not reply to, either I cannot or I will reply on my next update.