Which ELM327 tool will work best with these 850's?

[esl_97_850_T5]

I think you will have more ppl understanding what you write if you can provide the Coles notes version

mecheng,

A. Robert said he was going to buy an ELM327 for the purpose of:

- resetting the SERVICE light, and
- reading the vehicle mileage.

Since the only two existing-as-of-yesterday methods that I know of to accomplish those 2 specific goals are:

1. Issuing the necessary ELM327 commands and KWPD3B0 requests manually via a terminal emulator.

or

2. Using volvo850diag / IE / Javascript / Realterm to do both functions at the same time by:

- clicking "Start Realterm",
- waiting for it to finish initializing,
- clicking "ATZ Reset SRI",
- waiting for it to finish,
- clicking "Close Realterm",
- then closing volvo850diag,
- then opening the log file produced,
- copying its contents to the clipboard,
- opening the jonesrh.info/volvo850/kwpd3b0_interpreter.html page,
- positioning to the Paste... box,
- pasting the log file contents into the Paste... box,
- then clicking Interpret,
- then saving the results.

...and since I know how little time Solution #2 involves and how Solution #1 is error prone due to "operator error",

and since I know how important a video from Robert would be to show others how simple Solution #2 is -- even now in its klutzy, non-intuitive, 2-step, "scan everything first, then interpret everything" approach,

and since I know how easy it is to just throw up your hands in despair and claim that it can't be done because you haven't figure out how to do it yet -- and especially so if you already have mental blocks concerning it,

and since I just wanted to give Robert the convenience of quickly performing the 2 functions he wanted to get done, at least on the 2nd and subsequent times that he does them in the future on each newly acquired, used '96-'98 850/S70/V70 that he fixes up and sells -- as a small token of my thanks to him for his extremely useful videos,

I chose to not wait for him to fail, but instead guide him, as best I could, into the most probable successful approach to get his 2 functions done with an ELM327.

My responses to Robert in this thread were focused on:

goal #1: giving Robert an existing ELM327 based tool to repeat the mileage reading and SERVICE light resetting when he chooses to perform them, and

goal #2: ensuring he successfully performs the mileage reading and SERVICE light resetting, thereby making it easy for him to produce a video showing others how to push a few buttons and perform a cut/paste to accomplish those same 2 goals.

B. Any further Coles Notes version will have to come in the form of Robert's video(s).

esl_97_850_T5

[mika]

Robert, I posted on your video channel last week about my success with ELM...I used a 7.99 with shipping cheap-o knockoff and it worked perfect on my 1997 (and will work on 96 too) as I told you about. I listed the commands that worked for me, specifically B903 as listed above. There is a longer and a shorter/condensed version, all outlined on the aforementioned website in this thread. there is an interpreter box tool on his website so you dont have to translate hex!

However, the B903 command on my 1998 yielded gibberish, and I still have not gotten b903 to work on 1998 yet..I have tried all commands...

I used "ElmBasic" on android/google play (1 of the only simple elm command tools on google play without advertisements or bs) . Simple and you just type in the command as if you were sending a text message, no loading of text files or output of results. Anyone can use this method once you pair the bluetooth dongle to your phone.

[Blockpartie]

For those using this method: Know what you are doing or you can break your stuff. Very easy to get it wrong.

[mika]

I saw that warning on jonesrh website.... what do you mean by "break your stuff?" What is the worst case scenario? How would "retrieving info" cause a problem?

Asking to learn more, not skepticism ....

[esl_97_850_T5]

Robert, I posted on your video channel last week about my success with ELM...I used a 7.99 with shipping cheap-o knockoff and it worked perfect on my 1997 (and will work on 96 too) as I told you about. I listed the commands that worked for me, specifically B903 as listed above. There is a longer and a shorter/condensed version, all outlined on the aforementioned website in this thread. there is an interpreter box tool on his website so you dont have to translate hex!

However, the B903 command on my 1998 yielded gibberish, and I still have not gotten b903 to work on 1998 yet..I have tried all commands...

I used "ElmBasic" on android/google play (1 of the only simple elm command tools on google play without advertisements or bs) . Simple and you just type in the command as if you were sending a text message, no loading of text files or output of results. Anyone can use this method once you pair the bluetooth dongle to your phone.

mika,

To me that was 3 very useful paragraphs you posted.

Thanks a boatload for telling us about "ElmBasic", so we don't have to hassle with the "ELM 327 Terminal" ads !!! It's likely I'll add it to jonesrh.info during the coming weeks as an example of another Android-based ELM327 terminal emulator. However, I'd be curious to first hear of others' experience with it, since there were only two textual feedback responses at the Google app store, and I didn't find any substantive Google links to it besides the Google app store link. So it must be a brand new app. I'd like to hear from those folks that rated it at 3 and 1 to see if it has disadvantages worth inhibiting me from adding it to jonesrh.info pages.

And thanks for letting us know that another super cheap ELM327 clone has successfully been used for reading the '97 850 vehicle mileage from the COMBI.

I'm especially interested in solving the problem of being unable (so far) to read your '98 v70 mileage from the COMBI using your ELM327 device. I'll PM you all my questions on that subject.

But here's some questions others might want answering...

Q1. How can I see your posts last week on Robert's video channel? I've searched for the posts, but can't seem to find any recent posts besides some by Robert that are from last month. It would be most helpful to me to see an explicit link, then to also explain any necessary steps in detail relating to click this, click that, type this, type that. I can easily find Robert's video channel at https://www.youtube.com/user/RSpi007. But where do I go from there? Do I have to be logged in to YouTube? Or can I view your (mika's) posts just by accessing YouTube pages? Were your posts strictly text? Or did they include pictures and/or videos?

Alternatively, Robert, can you guide me on how to see the info that mika posted on your video channel?

Q2. mika, was your cheap-o ELM327 a Bluetooth? Did it look like one of those ultra-small translucent blue ELM327 Bluetooth tools that were linked to from an Amazon link near the beginning of this thread? If not, can you provide a link to your tool so we can see an example of a very low-cost ELM327 that has worked (at least for your '97 850)?

Q3. Is "ElmBasic" free? Or does it cost? If so, how much?

esl_97_850_T5

[mika]

q1: nothing fancy, dont bother looking for it: I copy and pasted the terminal command from your website, as you already did in this post

q2: yes, bluetooth. the auction was for "Diagnostic Scan Tool Interface OBD-II OBD2 Blue"


q3: "elmbasic" was the ONLY free app that did not require any permissions from your phone (such as gallery or identity). I also tried "KWIK OBD terminal" but it was a no go. too many errors/bugs.

my question: regarding blockparties post: what can go wrong with retrieving this info? can our commands cause permanent damage? My car drives well after I used your procedure, but recently my transmission started acting up. just kidding.

[esl_97_850_T5]

For those using this method: Know what you are doing or you can break your stuff. Very easy to get it wrong.

I saw that warning on jonesrh website.... what do you mean by "break your stuff?" What is the worst case scenario? How would "retrieving info" cause a problem?

Asking to learn more, not skepticism ....

It is wise of Blockpartie to remind us that it is possible to break something.

It is very, very easy to "get it wrong" when you are manually typing the commands/requests. There were a significant number of times in my first year of using Hyperterminal when I typed either wrong ELM327 commands or KWPD3B0 requests. That's one of the main reasons I automated my typing by developing volvo850diag.

So far, I don't think that I've broken anything due to issuing the commands thru the ELM327 to my '97 850 T5. But I could easily believe that it is possible for us to damage something irreversibly. The very fact that Blockpartie is warning about the possibility is a likely indicator that it is a true possibility. And, for me, the very fact that I have an "internal check / gut / 6th sense" that says NOT to attempt experimenting with certain requests is enough (most of the time) to keep me from experimenting with those KWPD3B0 requests. After all, my car is a daily driver (which other people depend upon to get to/from work) and I have no other transportation. So I can't afford for any system to break down from my own mistakes or my own foolishness.

The only possible exception to that "I don't think that I've broken anything" statement might be the case of my SERVICE light burning out (supposedly). It's possible that my SERVICE light did not really burn out, but that I somehow caused it to cease to ever illuminate again by reprogramming the SERVICE Reminder Interval (SRI) limits using one of the extremely high values that can be programmed from volvo850diag's "Select SERVICE Reminder Indicator (SRI) limit(s)" pulldown list and "Reprogram SRI limit(s)" button. You should consider that a possible "break your stuff" case. However, for the time being, I assume my SERVICE light just happened to coincidentially burn out after working for 16+ years, just like other owners' dash lights occasionally go bad.

From the "Possible command set" listed in rkam's "Diagnose and communication" thread [login required], I assume that the KWPD3B0 requests that begin with the 2 hex digits in the following subset of rkam's list might potentially damage some ECU or the subsystem it controls:

A3 - Security Access Mode
A8 - Set Data Transmission
AA - Dynamically Define Record
AF - Clear DTC

B0 - Input Output Control By Offset
B1 - Input Output Control By Identifier
B2 - Control Routine By Offset (Activation)
B4 - Define Read Write ECU data
B8 - Write Data Block By Offset
BA - Write Data Block By Address

Some of those I've explored. Some of them I have not explored.

From that subset, what I personally consider the prime candidates for '96-'98 Volvo 850/S70/V70 KWPD3B0 requests that might possibly damage ECUs or their subsystems to be those requests that begin with the 2 hex digits listed in the following list:

B0 - Input Output Control By Offset
B2 - Control Routine By Offset (Activation)
B8 - Write Data Block By Offset

Those are the only ones that I have any substantive experience with. And my experience so far is strictly with ECU 51, the COMBI. But I could easily believe that most of the other ECUs would allow some properly formatted requests that begin with B0, B2, or B8, and consequently could be altered favorably or unfavorably by requests that begin with B0, B2, or B8.

mika, here's a plausible scenario where your attempt at "retrieving info" using an ELM327 device controlled by a terminal emulator that sends the KWPD3B0 requests might cause a problem. Let's say you wanted to read the mileage. The last thing you type is B903. But what if you accidentily typed B093 or B039 or B0xx, where xx is God knows what hexadecimal value. The B0xx might potentially be a valid Input/Output Control By Offset request which is acted upon by the ECU you're communicating with. If that were the case, there's the possibility that you might accidentily screw something up.

Obviously, since '9' and '0' are right next to each other on the keyboard, you should consider that "typed 0 accidentily when meant to type 9" scenario as having a higher than normal probability of occuring compared to your everyday keyboard mistake. So like Blockpartie says: "Know what you are doing", and like I'll add "Be careful in your typing".

You might think that the same '9' next to '8' on the keyboard would potentially create a problem with accidentily typing a B8... (Write Data Block By Offset) request when you were really intending a B9... request. But actually there's a much lower probability of that being a problem, because the B9xx and the B8xxyy and B8xxyyzz have a different length, different format, and different ATSH commands that must precede them to get the B8... request to work be accepted.

As far as any problems arising from the B8... requests, the most likely problem is:

- typing the value incorrectly,
- not getting the order of the 2 bytes of data in the B8xxyyzz correct (eg, typing B809 03E8 when really what you had intended was B809 E803),
- typing the wrong but legal value for xx (eg, typing B807 E803 when really what you had intended was B809 E803), or
- simply typing one of the digits in the data incorrectly.

The intended ECU 51 B8... values in those examples probably will not break anything, other than cause an unexpected value to be reprogrammed into one of SRI Engine Hour limit or SRI 1/4 Days limit.

But let's say you were working with ECU 7A (Motronic 4.4) or ECU 11 (MSA 15.7). I could easily imagine that changing one of the values that are reprogrammable via ECU 7A or ECU 11 B8... requests (if any) might cause some serious damage, in much the same way that ECM maps modified too aggresively might cause you to throw a rod or something like that.

Another problem I encountered in my first year was unknowingly issuing commands to the wrong ECU because I had issued an inconsistent set of ATIIA, ATWM, and/or ATSH commands that didn't all have the same ECU # in them, or getting the ECU # and Tester # swapped in the ATSH command, or placing an ECU # in the ATTA command (instead of the Tester #). Some of those situations were difficult to sort out as to what ECU I had communicated with and if I had issued some damaging request.

The way to eliminate the typing errors is to drive your OBDII scanning device (be it ELM327 or VAG/COM KKL) with a program, so that the vast bulk of commands / requests are sent automatically after pushing a button. At present, the only programs I know to do this are Vol-FCR variants, Brick-Diag variants, and volvo850diag. The Vol-FCR variants and the Brick-Diag variants work with the VAG/COM KKL cables, and volvo850diag works with the ELM327 devices.

[Hopefully, someone in the very near future will add volvo850diag style scripting to something like the Android-based ElmBasic app that mika mentioned and produce a working Android-based volvo850diag. It would still be brain-dead (just like volvo850diag) as far as doing any immediate automatic interpretation of the response received from the car, but at least it would eliminate the possibility of typing errors for folks that have Android platforms, but don't have Windows platforms.]

When you can't use one of the Vol-FCR, Brick-Diag, volvo850diag, future Android app programmatic approaches, the way to drastically limit typing errors is to work from a "cheat sheet" which has been created for your present particular scanning session, and to be diligent about your typing.

Again, to repeat what Blockpartie said: "Know what you are doing". If you don't understand what an ELM327 command or KWPD3B0 request is intended to do, then don't issue it!!! Use the same common sense for the computer communication DIY work that you would use for mechanical DIY work.

mika, rather than waiting on Blockpartie to detail what might be damaged and what request might cause the damage, probably the safest bet now is to just assume the worst case is: you might potentially totally disable whatever ECU (or its controlled subsystem) that you send the KWPD3B0 requests to:
- **IF** you send requests whose function has not been documented,
or
- **IF** you send requests whose values are not the documented allowed and/or recommended values.

esl_97_850_T5

[pappatho]

Has anyone successfully used a Wifi ELM327 device? I have this one http://www.obdinnovations.com/elm327-wi ... e-android/ and so far haven't been ale to get it to work. I have tried changing the scanner type to OBDlink in the .html for volvo850 diag, but I still can't get anything to happen when I hit the Start Realterm button. My PC shows I am connected to the ELM327 but I am not getting any flashing lights on the ELM327 like I do when it is connected to my Ipod. It does show that bytes have been sent and received.

My main goal right now is to be able to pull the mileage on my '97 855R.

[esl_97_850_T5]

pappatho,

Thanks for exploring yet another type of ELM327 device. That's affordable enough so that I might buy one of those also for testing purposes.

I think it's very likely that volvo850diag can be easily individualized for your new device so you can successfully perform all of volvo850diag's functions on your 97 855R with your WiFi ELM327 clone.

But first can you answer these questions:

Q1. What is the COM port # that the wireless ELM327 clone uses?

Q2. What speed is used between the ELM327 and the PC? 38400 (like typical ELM327 clones and the official ELM327 chip)? Or 115200 (like typical ScanTool.net OBDLink devices)? Or something else?

Q3. How are inferring that your PC showed you are connected to your ELM327?

Q4. Have you used STNterm to verify a successful connection with your car and a retrieval of at least some info -- ie, to perform some easy tests to make sure you can both talk with the ELM327 and send at least one request to the car and get the responses back?

With the answers to Q1 and Q1, you ought to be able to easily setup the STNterm.exe terminal emulator -- just select the COM port, then select the speed, then start typing the commands: ATZ, ATL1, ATE0 (or ATE1), ATI, etc. And you'll easily be able to cut/paste the results here so we can also verify your PC is talking with your ELM327 and your ELM327 is talking with your car.

If you issue the entire list of ELM327 commands and the 1 KWPD3B0 request (ie, B903) that's already been listed in this thread to STNterm, then you'll have the mileage reading out of the way.

Once you verify connectivity of the entire loop with STNterm, then we can deal with getting volvo850diag setup so we can scan without having to resort to interactive typing.

There's some relatively easy ways to solve "new type device doesn't connect" problems in volvo850diag -- namely editing a line or two, then refreshing the volvo850diag.html display [we can deal with that in another post if you don't figure it out yourself].

But it sounds to me like you might have a more basic, setup or permission problem.

Q4. Did you follow the steps in volvo850diag's "Installation and Setup of volvo850diag" section?

Q5. What step are you getting stuck on in volvo850diag's "First Time Use of volvo850diag and Realterm" section?

Q6. Have you allowed ActiveX and Javascript?

I'm wondering if you've neglected to (follow steps 4 thru 10 in the First Time Use section and) click on the box at the top of the IE window (at least it's at the top of my IE8 window in WinXP, and I think was at the top of the IE11 window when I tested in Win7). You have to click on that box to begin enabling ActiveX and Javascript. [ActiveX is required for volvo850diag to start and communicate with Realterm. Javascript is the guts of volvo850diag that controls what commands/requests are sent and what delays are used after they are sent.] After you click on the box at the top of the IE page, you then have to answer affirmatively to (usually) a couple of other questions.

Also, you might have a permission problem like Mike91 encountered, involving having to click the Unblock button in the Properties box for each unzipped file.

I bet I know what's happened!!! You've followed the instructions I listed earlier in this thread that started with

- clicking "Start Realterm",
- waiting for it to finish initializing,

If that's the case, I'll have to apologize, because I've simplified the instructions from the volvo850diag's "First Time Use of volvo850diag and Realterm" section too much. You have to always ensure ActiveX and Javascript are enabled for volvo850diag to work. I've performed this so often, that it's become second nature to me, and I forget to explain to do it. So I apologize and I'll try to remember in future simplified explanations of starting volvo850diag / Realterm to say something like this:

- display volvo850diag.html,
- enable ActiveX and Javascript [click box at top of window, Allow Blocked Content..., Yes, Yes],
- click "Start Realterm",
- wait for it to finish initializing,
etc.

If this post didn't point you in the right direction so you could solve the "lack of response to press of Start Realterm button" problem, and if you still want to pursue getting volvo850diag going (instead of settling for using STNterm), and if you've done your homework by reading and following the steps in the First Time Use section (up through whichever you are get stuck on), then PM me, let me know the version of Windows, IE, and volvo850diag that you are using, and the steps in the First Time Use section (and preceding sections) that you have followed. Also, screen snapshots (obtained by pressing Alt + PrntScrn simultaneously), accurately ordered sequentially in time, and intermixed with descriptions at each step you took, would be extremely helpful and are oftentimes necessary in debugging these problems remotely. They would be extremely useful if you ever posted them here or another thread in showing others what to do, what not to do, what to be aware of when running volvo850diag.

Once you learn initially what buttons to press to get volvo850diag running, it's extremely easy to run.

And once you learn how to view the HTML and Javascript messages that IE generates, then it's easy to debug volvo850diag when you make changes to it.

esl_97_850_T5

[Ben850]

Be careful what you ask of.
I would like a video response.

I am kidding Robert.
The easy answer to your original question is, any of the in expensive, either Bluetooth, or hardwired versions of connectivity.