Transmission Problems
This topic is in the MVS Volvo Repair Database »
Volvo XC90 Transmission problems shared amongst forum members
-
98expeditionXLT
- Posts: 36
- Joined: 21 December 2007
- Year and Model:
- Location:
Re: Transmission Problems
Are there any attorney Volvo owners who could comment if using a GM transmission in a Volvo constitutes fraud? Remember in the early 1970's, GM got in trouble for using Chevy engines across many of their product lines, specifically in Oldsmobile cars. When you are experiencing major problems around 60K miles, the dealer should go to bat for you with Volvo.
-
Dextrobrick
- Posts: 4
- Joined: 6 November 2008
- Year and Model: 2002 S80 T6
- Location:
Here are some thoughts about the General Motors Hydramatic 4T65-E transaxle used in both the 1st generation S80 T6 as well as the XC90 T6.
1) The S80 was the first P2 platform Volvo that the S60, XC90 and 2nd gen V70 are all built on. The P2 platform was designed before Ford purchased Volvo in 1999. Prior to Ford's purchase of Volvo, Volvo was a small independent automaker with limited resources.
2) In a very bold move, Volvo decided to produce its most powerful engine ever at the time and launch this engine in the then-new FWD successor to its 900-series RWD sedans. Thus T6 engine option for the S80 was born. The engine in the S80 T6, like the XC90 T6 that would come later, was a twin-turbocharged straight-six that--a) was exceptionally long (wide as it sits transversely in the S80's or XC90's engine bay) and b) was exceptionally powerful in that it produces a surge of high torque at very low RPMs unlike 4-cylinder engines and naturally aspirated 6-cylinders.
3) At the same time the S80 T6 debuted, General Motors was already producing its own line of large mid-size sedans powered by its own supercharged V6 engines which exhibited the same surge of high torque at very low RPM tendencies of Volvo's T6 engine. These GM sedans were the same size as an S80 and included the likes of Buick's Regal GS and Park Avenue Ultra as well as Pontiac's Grand Prix GTP and Bonneville SSEi.
4) GM's Hydra-matic 4T65-E was beefed up internally for use with the supercharged V6 so that GM's supercharged V6 sedans got a heavy duty version of the 4T65-E. This heavy duty version of the 4T65-E is what Volvo used with its T6 engines.
5) The 4T65-E transaxle is surprisingly compact given its torque handling capabilities. This is due to how only the torque converter sits aside the engine while the transaxle's gearsets and valve body are located behind the engine. The limited space available in the S80 and XC90 engine bays meant that not just any transaxle could be bolted up to the T6 engine.
6) The 4T65-E is proven to work adequately in 3,600 lb mid-size sedans with forced induction engines. Which means that the 4T65-E in the S80 T6 should last a very long time if driven prudently.
However the XC90 has one *very* serious fault that the S80 does not have. That is that the XC90 weighs 1,000 lbs more than an S80. That's half a ton more weight that the transaxle must contend with. So driving an XC90 is equivalent to driving an S80 with a permanently attached 1,000 lb trailer in tow behind it. No doubt driving an XC90 prudently then would require even more prudence than the lighter S80.
---
So why doesn't, say the 2.5T have the same transaxle issues as the T6?
The T6 and 2.5T powertrains really can't be compared directly--a) the 2.5T's Aisin Warner AW50 transaxle can't fit in the S80 and XC90 engine bay along with the T6 engine as the transaxle is too wide and b) 2.5T engine isn't as powerful and doesn't produce the surge of high torque at low RPMs as the T6 engine does. So one could argue the 2.5T is too weak to do any damage to a 4T65-E.
1) The S80 was the first P2 platform Volvo that the S60, XC90 and 2nd gen V70 are all built on. The P2 platform was designed before Ford purchased Volvo in 1999. Prior to Ford's purchase of Volvo, Volvo was a small independent automaker with limited resources.
2) In a very bold move, Volvo decided to produce its most powerful engine ever at the time and launch this engine in the then-new FWD successor to its 900-series RWD sedans. Thus T6 engine option for the S80 was born. The engine in the S80 T6, like the XC90 T6 that would come later, was a twin-turbocharged straight-six that--a) was exceptionally long (wide as it sits transversely in the S80's or XC90's engine bay) and b) was exceptionally powerful in that it produces a surge of high torque at very low RPMs unlike 4-cylinder engines and naturally aspirated 6-cylinders.
3) At the same time the S80 T6 debuted, General Motors was already producing its own line of large mid-size sedans powered by its own supercharged V6 engines which exhibited the same surge of high torque at very low RPM tendencies of Volvo's T6 engine. These GM sedans were the same size as an S80 and included the likes of Buick's Regal GS and Park Avenue Ultra as well as Pontiac's Grand Prix GTP and Bonneville SSEi.
4) GM's Hydra-matic 4T65-E was beefed up internally for use with the supercharged V6 so that GM's supercharged V6 sedans got a heavy duty version of the 4T65-E. This heavy duty version of the 4T65-E is what Volvo used with its T6 engines.
5) The 4T65-E transaxle is surprisingly compact given its torque handling capabilities. This is due to how only the torque converter sits aside the engine while the transaxle's gearsets and valve body are located behind the engine. The limited space available in the S80 and XC90 engine bays meant that not just any transaxle could be bolted up to the T6 engine.
6) The 4T65-E is proven to work adequately in 3,600 lb mid-size sedans with forced induction engines. Which means that the 4T65-E in the S80 T6 should last a very long time if driven prudently.
However the XC90 has one *very* serious fault that the S80 does not have. That is that the XC90 weighs 1,000 lbs more than an S80. That's half a ton more weight that the transaxle must contend with. So driving an XC90 is equivalent to driving an S80 with a permanently attached 1,000 lb trailer in tow behind it. No doubt driving an XC90 prudently then would require even more prudence than the lighter S80.
---
So why doesn't, say the 2.5T have the same transaxle issues as the T6?
The T6 and 2.5T powertrains really can't be compared directly--a) the 2.5T's Aisin Warner AW50 transaxle can't fit in the S80 and XC90 engine bay along with the T6 engine as the transaxle is too wide and b) 2.5T engine isn't as powerful and doesn't produce the surge of high torque at low RPMs as the T6 engine does. So one could argue the 2.5T is too weak to do any damage to a 4T65-E.
Hi Guys from across the pond...I have to disagree with this just being a T6 issue as there are many diesels over here...including mine.
Again there are many reports on sites in US and Europe of this very same thing, all under transmission / Bevel gear / Angle Gear failure.
I had the car on a muddy grass verge and thats it...couldnt get the car off as the power all went down on the FW and nothing from the back.
I had just taken it to a dealer and found another owner with the very same response - 'Suspect bevel gear / angle gear failed' - mine at 58k and his at 72k. Im not sure of the conversion but we had £1300 costs to deal with this. I'm of the opinion that these are crucial to the car as part of its sales and safety pitches.
I am commisioning an independant report as here in the UK (because i put the deposit down on a Credit Card) I have the option to pass on those costs to them. I'll let you know how it goes
Again there are many reports on sites in US and Europe of this very same thing, all under transmission / Bevel gear / Angle Gear failure.
I had the car on a muddy grass verge and thats it...couldnt get the car off as the power all went down on the FW and nothing from the back.
I had just taken it to a dealer and found another owner with the very same response - 'Suspect bevel gear / angle gear failed' - mine at 58k and his at 72k. Im not sure of the conversion but we had £1300 costs to deal with this. I'm of the opinion that these are crucial to the car as part of its sales and safety pitches.
I am commisioning an independant report as here in the UK (because i put the deposit down on a Credit Card) I have the option to pass on those costs to them. I'll let you know how it goes
Just took my 2004 XC 90 T6, 84,000 miles in for an "Urgent Transmission Service" warning message.
Dealer diagnosed problems with 2nd 3rd gears, cost estimate $5,200! Would like to hear from others about cost and experiences.
Dealer diagnosed problems with 2nd 3rd gears, cost estimate $5,200! Would like to hear from others about cost and experiences.
-
dcarlson12
- Posts: 514
- Joined: 2 July 2008
- Year and Model: 1997 850 T5
- Location: Surrey, BC, Canada
- Been thanked: 2 times
Just popped in from the S80 forum. Found this site about tranny problems on XC90's:
http://www.carsurvey.org/reviews/volvo/ ... /comments/
And I thought we S80 owners had tranny complaints. Seems mild compared to the XC90 owners at that site.....
http://www.carsurvey.org/reviews/volvo/ ... /comments/
And I thought we S80 owners had tranny complaints. Seems mild compared to the XC90 owners at that site.....
Another XC 90 Transmission story.dcarlson12 wrote:Just popped in from the S80 forum. Found this site about tranny problems on XC90's:
http://www.carsurvey.org/reviews/volvo/ ... /comments/
And I thought we S80 owners had tranny complaints. Seems mild compared to the XC90 owners at that site.....
We have a 2004 XC 90 T-6 with 87,000 miles.
The dreaded transmission service urgent warning came on and I took to the dealer and got “the you have to replace the transmission and that will be $5,200 please”
I took some of the information from this forum and the info and link from the post by dcarlson12 and contacted the Volvo customer care line as another poster recommended and made sent an e-mail to the customer care center, called the customer care center and then spoke with then called and left a message with the dealer service manager.
After lunch the dealer service manger called me back and said Volvo would cover the cost of the transmission if I would pay the labor and misc. parts.
Bottom line this forum saved me the $2,700.
Thanks to all!
-
tango4ever
- Posts: 1
- Joined: 14 May 2009
- Year and Model: 2005 XC90 T6
- Location: New York
Thanks for your sharing !farioler wrote:Another XC 90 Transmission story.dcarlson12 wrote:Just popped in from the S80 forum. Found this site about tranny problems on XC90's:
http://www.carsurvey.org/reviews/volvo/ ... /comments/
And I thought we S80 owners had tranny complaints. Seems mild compared to the XC90 owners at that site.....
We have a 2004 XC 90 T-6 with 87,000 miles.
The dreaded transmission service urgent warning came on and I took to the dealer and got “the you have to replace the transmission and that will be $5,200 please”
I took some of the information from this forum and the info and link from the post by dcarlson12 and contacted the Volvo customer care line as another poster recommended and made sent an e-mail to the customer care center, called the customer care center and then spoke with then called and left a message with the dealer service manager.
After lunch the dealer service manger called me back and said Volvo would cover the cost of the transmission if I would pay the labor and misc. parts.
Bottom line this forum saved me the $2,700.
Thanks to all!
I have a 2005 xc90 T6 and got no even warning that transmission stops working... can you add more details as to how you approached Volvo Customer Service and what info you provided to them to accept your claim?
-
trannyissues
- Posts: 1
- Joined: 4 June 2009
- Year and Model: 2004
- Location: Colorado
Keep in mind I was under FULL warranty during all this. Around a month ago I took my xc90 T6 in for not shifting properly. The service manager told me I had to do an upgrade that was not covered by warranty but that if I chose not to do it Volvo may not warranty transmissions problems in the future....what...If Volvo requires it shouldn't it be warrantied. (as well as my nav system that no longer works but is warrantied that I have to buy software for) I paid 300 out of pocket to get it done, not wanting to but with ALL the issues with this car felt it was in my best interest. My feelings were warrantied when I went in for my 90K service. The tranny was shot and I only had a few days left on warranty. Warranty did cover it thank the stars above! They told me it would take 4 or 5 days...well I just got my car back 32 days later!! They did provide me with a loaner, but not happy at all. I have had sooo many issues that I am now very concerned with the warranty expired. I spoke to the dealer about this and he recommended I trade it in on something with a warranty remaining. Now there is confidence in your product!!
Our 2004 XC90 with 93K miles started to slip going from 1st to 2nd and soon after displayed the dreaded transmision failure warning message. Our local dealer who we have used for service told us that Volvo NA is covering out-of-warrantee transmission replacement on vehicles with less than 100k miles. They replaced our transmission, radiator, oil cooler and hoses...all under warrantee. And the replacement was a new transmission...not a rebuilt unit. While I am disappointed that the XC90 had this problem...I am pleased that Volvo stepped up and covered the repairs 100%.
Jonathan
Jonathan
Just hitting 50K miles and I did as I said over a year ago. I changed the tranie fluid every other oil change 10K miles that would be every 5k miles I change my oil. Haven’t had any problems with the trans yet.
I did have one problem that my friend resolved and I think everyone should know about this. It had a noise when accelerating when cold, it sounded like someone tapping a pan under the car. My friend found the problem to be the rear output CV shaft was lacking grease 1st from the factory and probably the grease was cooked or dried out due to its location just above the exhaust pipe.
His resolution was to disassemble the CV joint while still leaving the exhaust in place clean it with a rag, flush it with brake clean and repack it with grease. This PM was performed at about 30k miles and I don’t hear a sound from it. What a cheap fix apposed to the dealer’s solution of replacing the output shaft part was 800.00 us + labor?
My Old Post
November 13th, 2009, 6:42 pm
Thanks ALL for the warning and all the info!
I have 28K miles on my XC90 and I am going to try to change my Trany fluid ever 2nd oil change to see if this helps the problem. I changed it @ 25k and will install a drain plug in the pan on my next 5k oil change so I can flush it out or should I say drain whats in the pan. I will do this every other Oil change 10K.
I realy like this car and I want it to last.
If any one thinks this is crazy please let me know but Trany fluid is cheap insurance to me.
I know this forum is about the Trany but I also have had problems with the NAV system blacking out every so often and the same with the radio also I had to change the right wheel bearing @ 19K and that is another concern?
At the present Im changing the front and rear pads due to a noisy right rear noise that is realy loud and scratchy only to find out that the EM brake is the issue and a friend told me not to mess with it because it is a total pane to repair so he said he will help me when I get all the parts.
I will try to keep all up to date but as we know we are all busy.
I did have one problem that my friend resolved and I think everyone should know about this. It had a noise when accelerating when cold, it sounded like someone tapping a pan under the car. My friend found the problem to be the rear output CV shaft was lacking grease 1st from the factory and probably the grease was cooked or dried out due to its location just above the exhaust pipe.
His resolution was to disassemble the CV joint while still leaving the exhaust in place clean it with a rag, flush it with brake clean and repack it with grease. This PM was performed at about 30k miles and I don’t hear a sound from it. What a cheap fix apposed to the dealer’s solution of replacing the output shaft part was 800.00 us + labor?
My Old Post
November 13th, 2009, 6:42 pm
Thanks ALL for the warning and all the info!
I have 28K miles on my XC90 and I am going to try to change my Trany fluid ever 2nd oil change to see if this helps the problem. I changed it @ 25k and will install a drain plug in the pan on my next 5k oil change so I can flush it out or should I say drain whats in the pan. I will do this every other Oil change 10K.
I realy like this car and I want it to last.
If any one thinks this is crazy please let me know but Trany fluid is cheap insurance to me.
I know this forum is about the Trany but I also have had problems with the NAV system blacking out every so often and the same with the radio also I had to change the right wheel bearing @ 19K and that is another concern?
At the present Im changing the front and rear pads due to a noisy right rear noise that is realy loud and scratchy only to find out that the EM brake is the issue and a friend told me not to mess with it because it is a total pane to repair so he said he will help me when I get all the parts.
I will try to keep all up to date but as we know we are all busy.
Last edited by murf on 25 Feb 2011, 18:28, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Similar Topics
- Replies
- Views
- Last post
-
- 4 Replies
- 1315 Views
-
Last post by precopster
-
- 10 Replies
- 4396 Views
-
Last post by JRL