2000 V70R - Now it begins -Rear AWD sub-frame replacement

Blockpartie · Post by **Blockpartie** » 15 Apr 2015, 02:16

Ozark Lee wrote: I guess my vision sucks worse than I thought.

Nah, your vision is good.
The pumps I had encountered previously didn't have any manufacturer markings at all. Could be that they switched suppliers for the MY '99 +. The more you know...

For the record:
All AWD P80 have two pumps. This is due to the packaging of the tank which had to leave room for the VC and prop shaft.
'99 and '00 have two actual pumps in a returnless setup.
'97 and '98 have one pump on the passenger side and a pressure driven ejector on the drivers side in a returnstyle setup.
On both systems you will loose 1/2 tank capacity of the secondary unit fails, also your gas gauge will read wrong.

Post by **scot850** » 15 Apr 2015, 20:48

Not sure you will loose access to half a tank, but point is good. Police might pull you over for weaving trying to slosh the gas to the other side!

Didn't have much time today, but did manage to support the fuel tank and remove the support strap bolts.

I think all that is left to do is to grind the heads of the 2 rear bolts for the sub-frame. Thought I was finally having some luck with actually loosening the other front mounting bolt, but just as on the LH side the bolt sheared where the thread starts.

: Sub-frame bolts sheared

I'll have to wait until next week now as I will be working the next few days, and would rather have my sons help but he is just starting his finals at University. Might have to try it myself, but I am pretty sure that I will have to beat the sub-frame loose from the bottom of the car.

Neil.

Post by **div4scpro** » 21 Apr 2015, 09:44

are you planning on replacing any of the subframe or rear control arm bushings. There are many opinions and cautions about the rear subframe cracking while replacing bushings, but upper and lower control arms are not aluminum so hopefully the risk is not so great. Am in the same process of subframe removal on a 98 V70XC, so don't hesitate to compare notes or ask questions.
Andy.

Blockpartie · Post by **Blockpartie** » 21 Apr 2015, 09:56

Lower control arms on an AWD are aluminium.

Post by **scot850** » 21 Apr 2015, 21:56

Thanks Andy for letting me know that there are others out there that are just as mad as I am!

I was able to get the sub-frame loose eventually, but it was brutal. As I am not using the lower half of the sub-frame again, I wasn't too concerned if my work was too clinical. I tried grinding the hear off one of the 2 rear bolts and it made no difference. The whole bolt and the contact surface of the sub-frame were completely welded together. I had to take a junior hacksaw and carefully cut the bolt between the sub-frame and the main frame. Did the same on both sides. I used a variety of cold chisels and a 2lb hammer to eventually get the 2 parts to separate. Lots of hammering. Lots and lots of hammering and Deep Creep. I will have to drill the old bolts out and re-tap the mounts. That should be a bundle of laughs!

I thought I was being clever by removing the bolts for the trialing arms so as to not remove the jacking points and disconnect the brake calipers. But as both ends of the trailing arms are stuck into the ends, that isn't going to work. I'll have to at least disconnect the solid brake pipe by the LH jacking point that runs over the fuel tank to the RH rear caliper. I'll also have to remove the RH rear flexi pie and caliper as the pipe is fixed and dropping the sub-frame will break the pipe. Confirmed with the dealer foreman that it is safe to support the body just in-front of the jacking points to allow the jacking points to be dropped.

The instructions also talk about disconnecting the fuel pipes as the front of the car by the firewall. Not sure why yet but will update when I figure out why.

Had to go out today to invest in a new floor jack as mine decided to give up after 21 years of service. Supplier (Sealey in the UK) were disappointing as they say spares are no longer available!

On the rear sub-frame mounts I am now warned! In fairness, the replacement is from a low mileage car and the bushes look like new. I will need to re-inspect to be sure. The rear lower control arms are aluminum, but the uppers are steel.

Had an interesting discussion with the dealer, and off the record, they told me they have had difficulty removing the sub-frames since the cars were a few years old. The cost now of repairing anything on the back end of the car, now often is way more expensive than the cars value! He estimated the job I am doing would be easily $4000 + with parts and labor assuming no difficulties are hit along the way! Scary! This has put me totally off ever having another AWD 850 or V/S70 variant. FWD and good winter tires are the way to go!

Tomorrow, I'll try to disconnect the brakes and the jacking point ready for dropping the sub-frame and tank on Thursday when my son is hopefully around.

Neil.

Post by **scot850** » 22 Apr 2015, 20:06

No real progress today as I decided to order the replacement refurb'd rear calipers. Tried to remove the current ones. The LH came off from the flexi-pipe easily, but the RH one decided to round the nut part. Vice Grips sorted that. The calipers are a little worn, but the pistons are really rusty. My view is that as I have to remove them anyway, might as well install all the new parts I already have. Rotors, cables , parking brake shoes and hardware.

Tried to disconnect the hard lines at the rear jacking points, but as usual are in-accessible and corroded. Typically for European cars, it uses a 11mm nut on the brake pipes which is a standard for most European vehicles, but try finding a flare wrench in that size in North America!

I have found one at a local part store. They initially said they didn't have one but discovered one set has! Have to buy the whole set for a tool I'll possibly use 3-4 times!

It still looks like I will have to replace the ends on the pipes if they are long enough and just cut the pipes off as close to their ends as possible. Got to love this car.......!

Tomorrow I will tackle the final removal hopefully with my sons help. Wish us luck!

Neil.

Post by **div4scpro** » 24 Apr 2015, 08:02

Don't know if you are also replacing the flex lines from the sub-frame point to the calipers, but even on a relatively corrosion free southern US car I had to cut the flex line off close so that I could put a 6 point socket on the rigid fitting. Obviously this only applies if we are talking about the same fitting. Only if you have time, send me a pic and I'll see if it's one of the fittings I have already dealt with.
As far as any bushings, my whole subframe is coming off, so I will soak,soak, soak, with penetrating fluid and then if any doubt cautiously cut out the old bushing and clean bore before trying to replace any of them.
Don't know what else help I can be but don't hesitate to ask.
Andy

Post by **scot850** » 24 Apr 2015, 10:23

I had the same issue on the brake lines. I even went out to see if I could find an 11mm flare wrench. For some reason all kits seem to skip this size although it is the #1 size used in Europe and also a lot of Asian made vehicles. Needless to say, the LH rear one still tried to round, so dropped the mount a bit, and attached 2 large Vice grips. Once these had cracked them loose, the flare wrench worked. The inner one that runs over to the RH side, which is almost inaccessible, the flare wrench actually got it loose. I had resigned myself to cutting it off and then attaching a socket to it like you did. Anoyying thing as usual, is someone has already royally ruined the RH side end of the pipe. So I plan to replace that pipe while in there. At $36 US from Tasca is seems sensible to do for future proofing and not having to pull the rear frame again.

Is there any way to stop all the brake fluid running out? In the old days, we would put flexi-wrap over the top of the master cylinder bowl and re-attach the cap to prevent air entering and this stopped the fluid draining. With the modern vehicles not having level sensors it can't be done.

Funny thing is that my concern that the rear bleed screws on the calipers would not loosen was un-founded. After loading them into my bench vice, a quick crack with a ring wrench and a rubber hammer were all that was needed to get them moving. I'm still swapping them out as both have very corroded pistons (again they still worked) but as I am going to replace the flexi-pipes (about 4 years old) and have to bleed the system is seemed silly not to do this at the same time. I did have suspicions that the LH rear was sticking or was not tight on the slider pins anyway.

Next week (I work weekends part time), I will undo the RH side brake pipe to flexi-pipe and then finally drop the rear frame.

Did you disconnect the fuel pipe at the engine end as the Volvo instructions say to do? It is weird as I can only find one pipe from the tank and a plastic pipe for the emissions. Need to re-check. The one pipe connection looks like one of those spring clip types, which is of course hidden above the steering rack and front anti-sway bar half way up the back of the engine block. I have had trouble with those connections every time I have had to deal with them on my Volvos, even when accessible.

Good luck!

Neil.

Post by **div4scpro** » 25 Apr 2015, 13:50

Have the engine completely out for rebuild but lines running from engine to tank are still in place as I havent dropped the tank yet. when I do drop subframe whole rear end I plan to replace any soft sections of the fuel line that run from front to back.
no way to stop fluid from running out that I am aware of when we are that deep into the system, sorry.
good luck and keep going!

Post by **scot850** » 27 Apr 2015, 17:17

Thanks for help. Got back to working on this a little yesterday and today. THE EAGLE HAS LANDED! Yes the rear frame has been dropped to the garage floor at last. I have not pilled it out from under the car yet as I have 2 pipes to disconnect for the fuel system. I have posted a separate thread for that looking for advice. Once those are disconnected, then I can try to work the whole thing out from under the car to allow me to complete the strip down and identify what need to be replaced.

What shocked me most was the condition of the top side of the sub-frame. Part of the reason it was so hard to separate is that it looks like it was fused to the underside of the car frame. Below is a picture of one of the 'lumps' that I couldn't figure out where they were coming from as I hammered on the frame to get it loose. See one lump below:

: Piece of sub-frame corroded to car frame

I've also attached below a couple of pictures of where this and other lumps of this yellow and silver corrosion came from. IT is really scary for me to see as all this was going on hidden out of site until the frame cracked! LH side below looking from above.

: Top of LH sub-frame where initial crack appeared

RH side at same point:

: RH side of sub-frame

Below is some the corrosion still attached to steel frame under car:

: Some of the corroded sub-frame still attached to car

: More of the corrosion

Finally, a picture of the top-side of the sub-frame hidden from view. Hard to see but looks like the surface of the moon!

: Deep top-side corrosion

It still frightens me when I look at this all going on hidden from view!

Also found the brake pipe that that runs over the sub-frame from LH side to RH side rear wheel was heavily corroded hidden from view on the LH side. I was going to replace anyway, but again a worry.

Neil.