screeching sound like fan is catching

[BEJinFbk]

Let me start over.
The idea I have is just for troubleshooting.

Leave the green wire connected to the starter.
Pull the starter relay.
Turn on the key to the run position.
Hotwire the starter AT the starter.
( Isn't that what you're doing with your temp button? )

If the starter keeps running until you pull the green wire,
then you can start looking at the wire between the starter and
the empty starter relay socket. Could be a messed up PNP.
Is your backup light working? It runs 12 volts through the PNP.


If the starter disengages as soon as you disconnect your
testing hotwire, then the problem is farther up the line,
beyond the starter relay.

The whole idea here is to break the problem into smaller parts.
Getting the starter relay out of the loop cuts way down on variables.

Isolate and Conquer!

[MadeInJapan]

With the relay removed the car will not start...otherwise, it starts in position II or position III of the ignition. I do not know how to "hotwire" the starter outside of the "loop" of the starter relay and green line connected.. If this is even possible, please let me know. The Green wire is the start button- the "hotwire" as you claim...disconnected, the car will not start- I touch it to the starter solenoid ( the "button" as you call it) and the car starts instantly. I hope this makes sense.

I now have a regular fuse in the 10A spot (not wired to ground- never understood that anyway)...then put the key in position II, and touch the wires from the starter solenoid to the green wire and it starts...and then I let the wires dangle. The 10A fuse is no longer blowing!

I'm of the conclusion that one of 3 things are happening now:
1. The new starter was installed incorrectly with a live 12V wire running to it so it will start in most conditions (unrelated to ignition switch, except position I which gives no power to most of the car anyway).
2. There is a definite shorted live wire in the circuit- causing the constant start condition as long as the ignition is more than auxiliary (past position I- therefore position II or III). IN other words, the car is set to have power running through most of its circuitws.
3. The tumbler portion of the ignition switch is broken....

If #3 condition is the culprit, I need to take off the electronic portion of the ignition switch and visually observe how much movement there is when actually turning the key in the ignition. If for instance, turning the key from position II to III or vice versa makes no difference, the tumbler portion of the ignition is broken and should either be repaired or replaced (big bucks!!).

[jblackburn]

3. The tumbler portion of the ignition switch is broken....

If #3 condition is the culprit, I need to take off the electronic portion of the ignition switch and visually observe how much movement there is when actually turning the key in the ignition. If for instance, turning the key from position II to III or vice versa makes no difference, the tumbler portion of the ignition is broken and should either be repaired or replaced (big bucks!!).

Test it.

Remove the electrical portion of the switch and use it to start the engine with a screwdriver. Turn it back a position by yourself and see if the starter still stays engaged.

[cn90]

OK,

You already replaced the ignition switch (electrical portion).

Look at the diagram again:

1- Remove the Starter Relay and check the socket with key OUT of ignition:
Ohmmeter:
- #85 to ground: 0 Ohm

Voltmeter:
- #30 should have 12V
- #87 should be 0V

- #86 should be 0V....I suspect this socket is somehow energized all the time creating this problem of starter running all the time.
If this is true, check the wire I labeled with BLUE arrows.

- Also, check item 17/1 (Service Socket for Starter Motor):

[MadeInJapan]

I have to go to work...will try these things after I get home this evening.

Other possible solutions, very much welcomed!!

[MadeInJapan]

cn90- all that you said was true- all of the sockets on the relay were the right voltage and 0-ohms like you had suggested. I also checked the blue arrow as you suggested- #86 and it was 0V...the only thing that registered voltage was #30 when the key was out. I'm not sure what all of this proves. The starter is not energized any longer with the key out or key in position I, but it does crank with the key in position II (and of course III)...and will keep turning over while the car is running. If I turn the key back to position I, the starter stops as well, but so does the car, so that is why I have to have a wire to jump start the starter at this point. Typically, I put the key in II, go out and pop my hood and touch the wires, shut the hood and put it in gear and drive off. When I stop, I just turn the key off. I don't have to open the hood until next time I start the car- and to keep from getting burned, I have a wire running up to the top of the engine- both from the starter solenoid and the positive (green) wire that I touch together.

[MadeInJapan]

OH, and I just tried something interesting- I pulled the starter relay and touched the two wires together- something I assumed wouldn't work but the car started. Now, I've been doing some reading on the "J" relay- apparently it's a "relieve" relay- I believe it has nothing really to do with starting the car- what it apparently does is shut down all other auxiliary items while the car attempts to start, so in reality, this is no surprise. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[MadeInJapan]

Let me start over.
The idea I have is just for troubleshooting.

Leave the green wire connected to the starter.
Pull the starter relay.
Turn on the key to the run position.
Hotwire the starter AT the starter.
( Isn't that what you're doing with your temp button? )

If the starter keeps running until you pull the green wire,
then you can start looking at the wire between the starter and
the empty starter relay socket. Could be a messed up PNP.
Is your backup light working? It runs 12 volts through the PNP.


If the starter disengages as soon as you disconnect your
testing hotwire, then the problem is farther up the line,
beyond the starter relay.

The whole idea here is to break the problem into smaller parts.
Getting the starter relay out of the loop cuts way down on variables.

Isolate and Conquer!

PNP works fine- never had an issue with it and the backup lights work as well.
I just tested the start without the relay and it starts!! But I have an explanation for that.
And the Starter keeps turning until I pull the green wire or put the key in the ignition to position I or pull it out.
With the key in position II, it continues to run. If I put the key in III while running, I get a squealing sound, like it normally would if I try to start the starter while the car is running. Are we getting anywhere with this info??

[cn90]

- All socket terminals you mentioned are OK: this means nothing wrong with the wiring.
- FYI, early models (1994-??? 1995) have no starter relay. Basically, 30 feeds straight to 87 and the car is started with key in position III.

- You mentioned that you installed a new ignition switch (electrical portion). This leaves the tumbler as the last culprit.

Do what jblackburn said earlier: remove the ignition switch (electrical portion) and use a flat screw driver to simulate position I, II and III (start). If this works as designed then you are down to the tumbler.

- For the tumbler, I wrote a detailed DIY for it in forum.

[MadeInJapan]

When you say use a flat screw driver, do you mean to put it into the plastic center portion of the electric starter piece or do you mean to touch the different metal nubs that are sticking up that correspond to where electricity should be flowing?