Login Register

No K&N Controversy here?

Help, Advice and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's P80 platform cars -- Volvo's 1990s "bread and butter" cars -- powered by the ubiquitous and durable Volvo inline 5-cylinder engine.

1992 - 1997 850, including 850 R, 850 T-5R, 850 T-5, 850 GLT
1997 - 2000 S70, S70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70, V70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70-XC
1997 - 2004 C70

This topic is in the MVS Volvo Repair Database » K&N or Traditional Air Filter?
Post Reply
QuirkySwede
Posts: 137
Joined: 24 November 2013
Year and Model: 1998 S70 GLT
Location: midwest
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: No K&N Controversy here?

Post by QuirkySwede »

abscate wrote:Add "air filter" to sex, religion, politics, and oil change intervals.....
INCORRECT, because unlike religion, politics, and likely sex (broad topic), air filtration is empirical -- measurable data can be collected and compared without anecdotal bias nor experimental confounds.

Oil change intervals can also be empirically studied (versus speculated) as a science; the discipline is called tribology, and any reputable lube supplier will either have one or more on staff (large company) or contract with companies who do who provide testing. Newer cars are increasingly equipped with sensors to monitor oil condition and will alert before the standard mile change interval if used in harsh, dirty conditions, and after if used in clean, highway ones. Barring that, manufacturers provide recommended oil grades, providers, and service intervals based on their own tribology testing. Owners wanting to make informed choices about using other oils can consult their respective MSDSs, request tribology results from the manufacturer, or send in a sample of their oil to a tribologist for testing.

As instarx notes above, those who laud K&N are most often exhibiting Conformation Bias (as opposed to Buyer's Remorse) and or Cognitive Dissonance in that
"I just paid $$ and spent ##:## time making this change,
which if it doesn't make my car better means I've wasted my time and money,
but I'm neither inefficient nor wasteful,
so it must have been a good decision,
and the product has to be working as advertized,
(even if I can not measurably prove it
using the exact same conditions
where the operator's actions can not be influenced
by knowing which is being tested,
nor other variables introduced,
and other confounds [e.g. order of use] accounted for)
."


Installing a bigger garage door doesn't get the family from the street to the kitchen table any faster if the door to the garage remains the same, but a lot more dead leaves and grass clippings come along.

JDS60R
MVS Moderator
Posts: 3532
Joined: 21 February 2009
Year and Model: 2007 S60R 2016 XC70
Location: Mount Juliet, TN
Been thanked: 3 times

Post by JDS60R »

I have gone back to Mahle filters for a few years now. The "small fiber" grids filter and flow better. We discussed it in other posts and I forgot about this one.

Volvo did a good job on their air box and intake piping so the K&N doesn't help much with our cars. My tuners still tell me the KN will give about 5 more hp on an R but I am not seeing it. I got so much more by concentrating on the converter and resonator ( first muffler). Still did not seeing anything from the KN with the increased flow. I like the Mahle's until something better comes along. For me mpg is better, and performance is the same. I tried the Mann also in my xc70 - no problem with that either but mpg with the Mahle was minimally better and I get them at the same price so i don't have as much experience with the Mann personally.
Retired

User avatar
osman
Posts: 405
Joined: 20 January 2012
Year and Model: 2002 c70 hardtop
Location: san marcos texas
Been thanked: 1 time

Post by osman »

My version of a re-usable lifetime air filter: I take it out and flap it around with one hand while shooting compressed air into it with the other. Rinse and Repeat. I mean really how dirty do these air filters even get?
Brick Life
2003 Saab 9-5 ARC V6 3.0 Turbo 120K SwagWagon
97 850R wagon mileage unknown
2000 C70 Turbo Convertible 110K
99 XC70 AWD LPT 115
98 BMW 328IS 130K M3 Wheels
94 Mercedes 420E 160K
Kiwi bluetooth/Torq Pro app VOL-FCR/VAG-COM USB cable

marshallh
Posts: 41
Joined: 20 February 2014
Year and Model: 2004 V70 2.5T
Location: a cornfield

Post by marshallh »

After installing a K&N stock replacement filter my 04 V70 2.5T has slightly more torque from 1500-2000 RPM. Nothing else is affected.

This is compared with a brand new OEM replacement filter.

The filter is about half the depth of the OEM.

User avatar
MoVolvos
Posts: 5270
Joined: 15 January 2012
Year and Model: S&V70XC,S60,C30,XC90
Location: NC
Has thanked: 310 times
Been thanked: 524 times

Post by MoVolvos »

-
Debunking the K&N Myth – Why OEM is Better
http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html

Great reading!

Blessings,

BKM
-
Blessings,

BKM


2008 C30 T5 2.0 M66
2007 S60 2.5T - New Project
2003 S80 T6 Transmission DIED
2000 S70 SE Base - New Project
1998 S70 T5 Prior
1989 240 Wagon Prior

j-dawg
Posts: 1154
Joined: 20 April 2013
Year and Model: 1999 V70 T5
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 33 times

Post by j-dawg »

i recently replaced a PO's "lifetime" k&n with a fresh oem filter. made no difference to performance - throttle response, power, and noise are all unchanged on the butt dyno.

i don't know enough to talk trash about k&ns, but my reasoning ran along a few threads:
  1. 1 - these cars seem to last just fine on the factory filter. even if it's probably not drastically negative (i think it's probably zero), the effect of the k&n on engine longevity is unknown.
    2 - i don't know how to oil the filter. given how much controversy surrounds that subject, i'm not excited to learn.
    3 - i don't have any of the filter oil, and if i buy some i know i'll lose it before i need to use it again.

1 should be the most compelling argument, but honestly it's 2 that gets me. i know myself. whether any of the criticism of k&n filters is true or not, i am acutely sensitive to people on the internet telling me how i can fk something up. i'd spend hours reading about how to oil a filter, and then nervously spend way too long doing it. i'd lie awake at night thinking that unspeakable things were cackling and dancing about in my intake manifold, rubbing their hands together villainously. maybe i put too much oil, or not enough, or maybe someone on a bmw forum is right and k&ns are MAF murderers.

compare that to the alternative, which was to spend $10 on a factory filter. pitch the old one, buy a new one. write it down and do it again in fifteen thousand. given that i can't tell any difference in how the car drives, it was worth $10 just to not have to think about it: with the factory filter, my neuroses release me from this thread. i can put my feet up, relax, and cheerfully state that this thread doesn't affect me.

if you like the k&n, it's probably not harmful to your engine. enjoy it. for me, i'm perfectly happy being stock again.
1999 V70 T5 5-SPD | ~277k mi | sold

User avatar
rspi
Posts: 7303
Joined: 5 November 2011
Year and Model: 850 T-5R Wagon
Location: Cincinnati OH
Has thanked: 34 times
Been thanked: 72 times
Contact:

Post by rspi »

I installed a K&N in my last 2 cars and this current one. My main thoughts was to save a little money on changing, maybe gain a little air flow & power, then a little gas savings would be great.

Well, I sold the first car about 25,000 miles into the filter. Since the owners manual suggest filter replacements at 30,000 miles, I didn't save any money there. I believe I seen about a 3% gain in mpg, may have gotten my money back there, have not run the numbers on that one. No other filter related issues on that one.

Second car, sold it within 15,000 miles of installing the K&N. Maybe a 6% gain in mileage on that car, 960. No other data there.

Now on this current car, I installed the filter about 55,000 miles ago. Again, manual recommends 30,000 mile filter changes, so I would have to drive this filter 150,000 miles to offset just the cost of the filter because I can get Mann filters for $12. Then I would clean the filter once or twice, the cleaning kit cost about $12. Not sure if I'm saving any on gas. I pulled the filter at 40,000, 50,000 and at 55,000 and it does NOT need cleaning according to the instructions on the box. Just knocked some dirt off of it and vacuumed it once. I think I'm saving 1 mpg with it but I may install a new paper Mann to double check that.

If you are not REAL SURE that you will drive your car for 150,000 additional miles, the actual filter cost will not be a savings. As for the mpg savings, that would be another story if confirmed.
'95 855 T-5R M, Panther - 22/28 mpg, 546,000 miles
'95 955 T-5R Yellow Wagon, Lemonade, 180,000 miles
--------------------
Volvo's of past: '87 740 GLE, '79 262C Bertone, '78 264, 960's, '98 S70 GLT, '95 850 T-5R YellowVolvo Repair Videos

User avatar
rspi
Posts: 7303
Joined: 5 November 2011
Year and Model: 850 T-5R Wagon
Location: Cincinnati OH
Has thanked: 34 times
Been thanked: 72 times
Contact:

Post by rspi »

Just ran the numbers on getting 1 mpg more with the K&N filter over 55,000 miles and the cost savings would be about $392 @ $3.30 per gallon.
'95 855 T-5R M, Panther - 22/28 mpg, 546,000 miles
'95 955 T-5R Yellow Wagon, Lemonade, 180,000 miles
--------------------
Volvo's of past: '87 740 GLE, '79 262C Bertone, '78 264, 960's, '98 S70 GLT, '95 850 T-5R YellowVolvo Repair Videos

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post