My morning disaster - how done am I?

[LamboSE5]

Hey,

Thanks for everyone's help who posted on this thread.

It's been a while. But I am now going ahead with this. I'll be using the tutorial on Tracey's Soaps to guide me (and possibly some others.. whatever will help). The main thing I'm worried about is timing, I think. I don't understand it completely.
I think from what I've gathered so far that it's not so bad when you're doing a timing belt job, or even a new head gasket, when you haven't had an incident such as mine (a pulley explosion, or a TB break) -- because you just have to lock the cams where they already are. But, with my situation things are out of time and thats confusing me.

A quick question I'd like to ask; since things are out of time right now, can I go through the steps (tracey's soap tut.) all the way up to the actual head removal (where I use the 1/8" thick metal "shims" and the 1x4 wood to 'keep' the cams with the upper portion of the head, and coat hanger on the opposite side before I time anything up?
Or, do I (or should I) time things up now, before I take the head off, or do anything for that matter?

Another thought: IPD has that cam locking tool, and I also saw a "Timing Tool" (can't remember exactly what it was named). Do you think either of these would be beneficial to me? Maybe the cam locking tool?

Thanks, and appreciate the help and suggestions you've all already given me

[LamboSE5]

It is not in time. If the crank is in time, both of your cams would be in time too. Since these are interference engines, I would recommend the clearwater route.

I'm not sure about this statement...

Does this mean that: If I were to rotate the crankshaft slowly by hand, eventually the two camshaft sprockets would be in time, and at that moment/position the crankshaft would also be in it's correct position/in time/where it is now (in the earlier picture I posted)?

I mean, is my understanding of that correct? That I could turn the crankshaft until all three components time themselves up - sounds too 'simple'.

And is that crankshaft position in the picture indeed indicating that it is "in time", or that a cylinder (..#1 ?) is top dead centre, or both?

I'm off to look for some youtube/tutorial info.

Thanks.

[erikv11]

just up front: DO NOT TOUCH THE CRANK

That crankshaft gear picture indicates that the crank is perfectly on the timing mark. For your situation, that is a very good thing.

When the crank is on the mark, #1 is just before TDC and all of the other pistons are away from TDC. That means right now you can rotate the cams without messing up the valves any more than they already are.

"In time" means the cams are in sync with the crank. From looking at the marks on the cam sprockets, the intake cam may still be in time but the exhaust cam is off by several teeth, I dunno maybe 6 or 8 teeth. Hard to tell without the notches. because the timing belt came off, the cams moved more or less than the crank did, and now the engine is out of time. They are not in sync.

Here is what I would do:
- DO NOT TOUCH THE CRANK, leave it on the mark
- study the head gasket tutorial until I really understood the timing marks
- get a timing belt cover so you have notches to align the cam sprocket marks with
- rotate the cams into time
- install timing components and try to start the car, like the last part of a timing belt job

I say this because what you have is a skipped timing belt due to blown out roller, you have actually never tried to restart the car. There is a chance (tiny, miniscule chance) that the valves are not bent. People are going to say "oh they must be bent" and maybe they are correct but I can't tell from what has been posted so far.

When that doesn't work, and it probably won't, then it is time to redo the head. If you tried to start it put the crank on the mark. If you didn't, then just keep the crank on the mark and dive into the head gasket tutorial. As long as the crank is on the mark, there is nothing you can do (OK within reason ...) to hurt the head or the block. Just go through the procedure.

[rspi]

Lambo, once your car is out of "time", the cam locking tool is useless. So don't worry about that.

Once your crank is set properly at the mark, which yours is, you can turn the cam sprockets by hand to get them to line up with the TOP timing belt cover. The pic below has the top belt cover on and the marks that the cam sprockets should align with are the #10 circles.



So, now that all 3 marks are aligned, you can decide of you feel EXTREAMLY BLESSED. It would take a miracle for you to have NO head damage, seeing that you were driving 100km and tried to start the car a few times after you stopped. Anyway, you have to get all new timing belt stuff anyway. So, if you want, you can install the new timing belt, tensioner, tensioner roller, idler, basically completing the timing belt job. Then once all the parts are on and your marks are still lined up, try to turn the motor by hand 2 full revolutions. That means that you will turn the crank by hand or with a wrench untill it turns around 2 full times. It should turn clockwise. If it turns 2 full turns, you have likely experienced a true miracle. If you have any bent/broken valves, the motor will likely NOT turn (someone correct me if I'm wrong). These valves get so close to the pistons that bent or broken valves will hit the pistons and stop you from turning it.



If you can turn the motor over twice by hand, I'd say go ahead and try to start it with the key.

[rspi]

BTW, just for the record and others to learn from, when was your last timing belt change before your problem? When it was done, were the rollers replaced?

[LamboSE5]

First,
Thank you erikv11 and rspi for the explanation. It cleared up a couple things for me.

BTW, just for the record and others to learn from, when was your last timing belt change before your problem? When it was done, were the rollers replaced?

I'd like to answer this, and give some more info:

I bought the car with just over 189,000 Kms on it, for $1000. It needed brakes badly. It also had a blown 60amp fuse for the engine cooling fan - and needed a new fan motor, which was in the trunk. (also; PCV, ABS module, PNP switch, etc... you know - the list I'll spare you the rest.)

There was no sticker or indication of a timing belt ever being done, and I would seriously doubt that the pulleys, water pump or anything like that were ever done either. I mean, ever. I had planned on doing it the week I got accepted for school in another province, and I didn't have time to tackle it. I drove it a good 700 Kms to Nova Scotia, including a ferry trip, and then drove it for a couple months to/from school before it happened. (I know better now ) So, to be honest it's amazing it lasted..the tensioner really. 'Cause the belt didn't break, the tensioner blew. (are they supposed to be changed every 70,000 Kms?)

The night me and my friend went test drive it, it..how to put it..boiled over with coolant coming out from the expansion tank cap - due to the fan motor which I didn't know about at the time. And that is the only time it ever did that as we replaced the fuse and the fan motor the day after I bought it. Since then it never showed any true signs of a leaky head gasket or anything, but you can check the thread I made when I suspected...or wondered if it had one. (I guess I'll find out for sure when I take the head off right?)

Thanks, so much.

...These valves get so close to the pistons that bent or broken valves will hit the pistons and stop you from turning it...

This was and is my main reason for such indecision/fear about doing a head swap versus an engine swap. Would there not be damage to the piston(s) from the impact of the valves, or some other type of damage that would cause the bottom of the engine to be too damaged to simply do a head swap (cylinders, pistons, rings, block)? I was afraid I'd spend all this time and money only to find out the bottom half was messed up or something...

(I'm also working on another '98 S70 T5 SE for inspection to be sold, with parts from a '98 V70 T5 Manual that died on me. Don't buy cars from Quebec on a 'whim', they don't need to have their cars inspected there )

I lost half this message and had to re-write. I hope it's coherent, MVS is killing me today like this. Must be my settings, it keeps making me login and then my stuff is gone.
More to come...

[rspi]

I have the same problem sometimes. Write some stuff, hit submit and nothing. All lost.

Another question. I had a idler going bad in a 960 that I had. However, the roller was squeeking when the car was cold. This went on for a few weeks before I realized it was the idler. I asked and a tech told me what he suspected it was. He was right. I parked the car, ordered the timing belt parts (the belt was only 26,000 miles and 18 months old - rollers were 86,000 miles and 12 years old). When I pulled the belt the idler was so hard to turn I had to use 2 hands.

So, my question is, did the roller squeel for a while before it exploded? Maybe on cold start for a week or two?

[erikv11]

Usually the valves do not damage the pistons. But the only way to know for sure is to eyeball them when you pull the head. Either the pistons will be scratch free, or have a few shiny marks (also OK), or have a big hole in one of them (unlikely!). In the great majority of timing belt failures on these engines, a head swap/reman is all that is needed.

Maybe you have a spare/good head from the 98 V70, that you could swap in? You would still probably want to rebuild it (almost criminal to not do the valve stem seals while the head is pulled), but at least the valves will be good on the V70 head.

[LamboSE5]

...So, my question is, did the roller squeel for a while before it exploded? Maybe on cold start for a week or two?

Nope, no squealing. And I didn't notice any...noises that caught my attention. I knew even less then, especially about anything like that.

Usually the valves do not damage the pistons. But the only way to know for sure is to eyeball them when you pull the head. Either the pistons will be scratch free, or have a few shiny marks (also OK), or have a big hole in one of them (unlikely!). In the great majority of timing belt failures on these engines, a head swap/reman is all that is needed.

Maybe you have a spare/good head from the 98 V70, that you could swap in? You would still probably want to rebuild it (almost criminal to not do the valve stem seals while the head is pulled), but at least the valves will be good on the V70 head.

The V70 had an issue as well, an oil related one (pump I think). Not enough oil got to the top of the engine (or turbo) and messed it up. When I got home that fait full drive, it was loud as hell, I checked the oil though and it was within the marks (half way maybe). It's got about 265,000 Miles (!) on it too, not too interested in putting that head on this car I'm fixing, even if it hadn't been potentially damaged. Hah. Supposedly, this engine just had timing belt, pulleys, pump done at 262,000 miles (only reason I even considered buying it - mistake, big one) think they might have screwed something up.

Well I hope everything's ok when I do get the head off...I say 'do' optimistically, lol. Nah - I think I can do this with the guidance of internet and forums

I'm getting ready to make a big FCP order - $$
Any suggestions on kits, brands (to avoid or get), and other things I may as well get and renew while I'm at this job would be awesome. I'm thinking volvo/OEM only...

I'm looking at this one, and grimacing: http://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo-t ... t331wp1-oe
It doesn't include serpentine belt - c'mon man?

1) Do I need to buy the "tensioner" separate front the tensioner pulley?
2) Should I get an oil pump gasket kit? The pump itself is expensive, don't think it's in the budget...should it be? *sigh*
3) Is "Reinz" brand ok, for the head gasket. I don't like the sounds of that "Elring" head gasket kit. I might have to put together my own..more expensive that way probably - I'll check tomorrow. (I was told to stay away from Elring when I did camshaft seals before, and get volvo. I did.
4) Is there some type of 'liquid' gasket for the head.. I'm thinking of the oil pan aren't I?
edit:5) what's this - timing belt tensioner spacer. Pt No. 1271851?
All for now, I'm exhausted.
See ya.

[erikv11]

I didn't check out the pricing vs buying them separately say from tascaparts.com (remember tasca will ream you on the shipping) but those blue box parts in the FCP kit are a great way to go.

(1) Yes. And both should be replaced.
(2) I've done 2 head swap and never done the oil pump gasket. That doesn't mean you should skip it, just that I don't know the answer.
(3) Victor Reinz I'd be comfortable with, it is good quality and is OEM on the valve stem seals. The valve stem seals please don't waste your time with aftermarket.
(4) the pink liquid gasket is for the cam cover, you need some, don't buy the aftermarket stuff it does not work as well as the Volvo-branded goop.
(5) 1271851 is a "fail-safe" nylon washer that sits on the plunger of the hydraulic tensioner. If you buy a new Volvo tensioner then it should come with one of these, but even if it doesn't you can reuse the old one.

One tip that comes to mind is when you pull the head bolts I recommend using a new, 6-point, 1/2 drive impact deep socket. Even if you don't buy a new one, whatever you use MUST be 6-point. You don't want to round off the head bolt heads. And a long breaker bar/cheater pipe. If you buy the cheapie impact socket set from Walmart (house brand or Stanley brand), $20 here in the US, the 14 mm is the perfect size to fit in the recessed holes in the upper head. A better quality impact socket will be too thick-walled to fit in there.