96 850t burning or leaking coolant after head gasket

Post by **rspi** » 31 Oct 2013, 20:56

The coolant system should be under pressure at all times when the motor is hot but I guess it is under more pressure while running.

Post by **sdube** » 31 Oct 2013, 20:57

for that big of a leak, i doubt the green scotch-brite caused it...

Post by **sdube** » 31 Oct 2013, 20:59

what if you leave the car parked and running for a little while? do you see any leaks...

Post by **rspi** » 31 Oct 2013, 22:06

Phew, I looked through my tutorial and could not see any suggestion to use those pads or evidence that I used them.

I don't think those pads have anything to do with your coolant loss either. Just interesting information. I will be sure to pass on that warning.

Also, if you plugged all of your ports when you used those pads, and cleaned the fragments/dust up afterwards, you should be fine.

futureboycolin · Post by **futureboycolin** » 31 Oct 2013, 22:36

Yeah, I was very careful to clean up after myself, and keep the dust and debris out of any moving parts or oil ports. I blew out all surfaces with compressed air just before setting the head.

I was very careful when setting the head, which is why I just can't understand what went wrong. As much as I don't want to do this again, I kind of want to just to look at the gasket and see what went wrong.

Post by **JDS60R** » 31 Oct 2013, 22:42

Please do not use Scotchbrite or rollock discs to clean a head or block. I get to redo them at least once a year.

Here is what it looks like after the first skim

In Collins case we need evidence of the leak before we fix it. If you are frustrated now - imagine replacing the head gasket and still having it leak. Its easier to find the problem first.

Look for cleaning of the pistons or spark plugs.
refill the coolant and see if it leaks again - wouldn't it be nice if it was an air bubble somewhere that escaped?
Do we know how much coolant we are losing?
Have we tested the coolant for hydrocarbons?
Have we pressurized the coolant system yet?

Post by **JDS60R** » 31 Oct 2013, 22:58

Every head we pull of a 5 cylinder is usually 6 thousandths out from flat (over spec). I don't even check them anymore. Every one goes to the shop as I would rather pay $40 for a skim then clean the gasket surface. Its not worth my time. I watched the trend for a while but the fatal mix was a non cleaned or scothbrite cleaned head with a FelPro gasket ( sorry Fel-Pro ) . We found them to be a little thinner as well.

This was only my experience and not meant to start a flame war on FelPro vs every other gasket. As far as I know the person who put that gasket on could have bent it, scratched it or left oils on the deck so that the gasket would hydraulic and fail. Hydraulicing takes a while and these usually get to me a week after the owner performed the repair as stated above.

When you leave oil on the surface of the deck or head ( has to be wiped down and then wiped clean to avoid this. ) As soon as you heat up the engine the oil expands and then lifts or damages the gasket.

Also - copper spray is not for these gaskets. Permatex will even tell you copper spray for Metal head gaskets that do not have silicone or micro sealing compounds on them. The copper gasket spray will grab and rip over time the silicone beads on these gaskets. See Victor Reinz failure analysis documents at their website if you need pics.

futureboycolin · Post by **futureboycolin** » 01 Nov 2013, 01:05

Both the head and the block were immaculate. But unfortunately I did use the green scrubbing pads on them. I also, unfortunately, used the Permatex Copper on the gasket. This time I will be doing neither.

I will bring a good straight edge and check the block with a flashlight. But basically you're saying, don't bother, just take it to the machine shop to be resurfaced. But what can I do for the block??

I refilled the coolant before I lwft today, and will be back with thecar on Monday. I will update then about coolant level, any puddles on the floor, etc. What do you mean air bubble? You mean under the gasket/between cylinders?

Not sure how to pressurize the coolant or check for hydrocarbons. JDS60R, thanks for all your advice, I really appreciate it.

futureboycolin · Post by **futureboycolin** » 01 Nov 2013, 01:09

What was the diagnosis/solution in that other case?

Post by **erikv11** » 01 Nov 2013, 03:13

I cam late to the job, when he botched it. 600 grit sandpaper and a wood block was used on the block surface so we assumed it was a low spot. Couldn't tell for sure when the head was pulled. We did not want to pull the engine to fix an old block so we got another engine.