$10,000 S80 Challenge Topic is solved

[pbierre]

Paul - Here's what I have in terms of a maintenance log for my wife's 2013 XC70 T6. It looks like the same engine as your S80.

2013 T6 maintenance log.xlsx.pdf

(36.7 KiB) Downloaded 312 times

[pgill]

MVS Readers,

First I want to thank Pbierre for posting his maintenance and repair history.

And the most important thing you should be taking away from his post is if you can find a P3 for sale that has been maintained like his you should buy it and you should be willing to pay a premium for it.

Having said all that I want to compare what Pbierre has done as compared to what I have done for my P3's

2008 LR2 3.2 items completed

Maintenance 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,11
Typical repairs A, C, D, G, I
Less Common Repairs I,III,V,VI

2010 S80 3.2 items completed

Maintenance 1,2,3,5,6,7,10
Typical repairs A, D, E, G, I, J
Less Common Repairs - III, VI

Pbierres --> 2013 XC70 3.0T

Maintenance 1,2,4,5,6,7,8,9,11,13 (Edit 3 has also been done)
Typical repairs C, F
Less Common Repairs VI

The complete list decoder can be found here https://www.freel2.com/forum/topic32504.html

If I were fortunate enough to get a Volvo that had been as well maintained as Pbierre I would plan to change the following in my first year or two of ownership. (Note: I don't see these items in Pbierre's records but if he was certain that these items had been changed I would skip these items)

3. Coolant replaced (failure is oil or ATF heat exchanger internal leaks) Coolant flush was completed
10. O-Rings for Vacuum pump (only if it leaks)
A) Thermostat – replaced mine at 10 years (also replaced two coolant hoses)
B) Fuel pressure sending unit (should set a MIL code, I have a new sensor but its still on the shelf)
D) Engine mounts (only if the mount is collapsed)
G) Radiator Fan (Failed on my LR2 and I replaced proactively on my S80)
I) Anti-Drain back valve in oil canister housing failure (only if it fails, Pbierre check his and it functions fine)
V. Overdrive clutch pulley Alternator

That's a very short list.

The list for my S80 was nearly all of those items and several more.

Next time I should buy a P3 that is better maintained like Pbierre's

Thanks

Paul

[Rvolvos]

How is the oil level between oil changes doing?
Could this be related to TJ 24643 oil consumption or oil level low? This TJ made me rethink replacement of our P2 with P3 cars.

FYI. For our 2 P2 2.5T cars I use Motul 5W40 as a year around oil (CA) and oil consumption is no more than 0.5-0.75 liter between 5k oil changes. Works great when driven by teenagers.

[pgill]

Rvolvo,

To answer your question

I was aware of the oil consumption TJ before I bought my S80 and it didn't convince me not to buy my S80.

For my LR2 3.2 with synthetic oil only since new (I brought the oil to the dealer for the "Free oil changes" because I didn't want to use a low quality oil.) My LR2 doesn't consume oil I never add oil between changes.

For my S80 (that I bought used) I do add a little oil but its likely less than 1 quart every 6 months. Its possible that the oil control rings are contaminated with oil sludge but the synthetic oil I am using should clear it up over time.

Motul makes excellent oil and I wouldn't hesitate to use the 5W40 that you mentioned (Note: I've bought Mobil 1 0W40 for $22 for 5 quarts at Walmart and this is hard to beat for the price)

Lets talk about the LOW OIL message

1. If the PCV is broken then the 3.2 will consume oil (see page 7 of 77)

2. The correct oil level is difficult to measure (see page 5 of 77)

Note: Volvo doesn't talk about this but the Anti drain valve can cause the owner to underfill their engine. (because the 0.7 liters will drain back into the sump and make it appear that the engine has more oil in it than is actually there)
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=92091

3. Volvo changed the design of the oil control ring and it appears that they made it more sensitive to clogging due to oil sludge (you shouldn't have this problem with Motul or Mobil 1)

Here is a video of the problem explained for a Toyota Engine

I expect the problem that Volvo experience is nearly identical and I also suspect that a good quality full synthetic motor oil should mitigate the problem. and change the oil every 6 months or 5,000 miles as explained in the video.





Here is the Original Technical Journal

TJ24643-2013-05-15.pdf

(12.66 MiB) Downloaded 404 times

And an updated version of the TJ

Volvo_Technical-Journal-24643_I6-oil-consumption_201204.pdf

(444.09 KiB) Downloaded 555 times

Thanks

Paul

[pgill]

MVS Readers,

I wanted to share what I am doing with my S80 to prevent Oil loss

1. PCV - it looks like this was replaced before I purchased my S80, so for now I just check to make sure that if I remove the dipstick or the oil fill cap that only a very small vacuum is present (Note: if the PCV is broken then it will allow a significant amount of oil to enter the engine)

2. Brake booster vacuum pump O-rings - I replaced these and I no longer have a oil leak down the side of my engine

3. Mobil 1 0W40 motor oil to clean up the engine

For this third item

I specifically look for an oil the meets

MB 229.5 - Mercedes gasoline oil specification

VW 502 or VW 505 - Volkswagen gasoline oil specification

Porsche A40 - also a gasoline engine specification

Additionally I use this oil because it claims to clean up the engine that has deposits due to the engine being run on conventional motor oil.

0w40_2.jpg (203.09 KiB) Viewed 2365 times

And it minimizes the formation of future deposits

0w40_3.jpg (207.17 KiB) Viewed 2365 times

And finally here is a comparison of three different Synthetic oils

Note: ESSO is now owned by Exxon Mobil

The interesting thing is how much better the 0W-40 Mobil 1 is as compared to the synthetic ESSO

And for this test the "New" 0w40 is actually slightly worst than the "Old" 0w40. This is due to trade offs, the New is superior in other areas but very slightly inferior in this test.

This test is focused on simulating deposits on the piston rings. And if you watched the Toyota video you can see that the deposits on the oil control ring result in the engine burning oil and if the engine burs oil for too long then the catalyst efficiency code can be set and eventually the catalytic converter can be damaged.

0w40_1.png (400.7 KiB) Viewed 2365 times

Take care

Paul

[pgill]

For anyone that want to know more.

Here is the Power point from Mobil (Old 0W-40 being replaced by new 0w-40)
(Note: this happened a while ago and only the New formula is available now)

Mobil 1 new 0w40.pdf

(4.2 MiB) Downloaded 159 times

And if you really want to know why I am recommending

MB 229.5
VW 502 or VW 505
Porsche A40

This attachment has more information about the Proprietary testing for motor oils

m271_sludge.pdf

(549.75 KiB) Downloaded 146 times

[pgill]

MVS Readers,

I realize that the motor oil discussion isn't necessarily interesting to a lot of you.

Summary of Motor oil discussion for the 3.2 (also applicable to the 3.0T)

1. Mobil 1 0W40 has worked well for me (no consumption on my 3.2 that I purchased new and it is cleaning up the 3.2 that I bought used)

2. I realize that its a 40 wt and that Volvo recommends a 30 wt (if you look up the specs at 100C which is the operating temperature of the engine you will find that the viscosity is only 3% above the 30 wt range and I've used it on my 3.2 for over 100,000 miles)

3. In my opinion a good full synthetic motor oil will not clog the oil control piston rings and therefore not cause oil consumption (Mercedes had a Oil sludge problem and they created MB229.5 to fix the problem, I only use oil that meets this spec.)

Unless someone asks I am not going to talk about oil any more.

Thanks

Paul

[pgill]

Back to the Challenge,

I decide to modify the first line item in the cost to show the depreciation of my S80 instead of using the full purchase price.

To do this I got a price quote from Edmunds/Carmax

Total Vehicle Cost (excluding, wheels, tires, fluids and filters)

$2900 --- Depreciation (Purchase price $7400 - Present value $4500)
$62.53 --- (31401556) --- Booster O-rings
$40.35 --- (DENSO 5344) --- Sparkplugs
$58.28 --- (LR006071) --- Thermostat
$00.66 --- (LR001505) O-ring for 30713530
$24.29 --- (30713530) --- Coolant hose
$68.85 --- (31272677) --- Oil Filter housing
$18.92 --- (LR006076) --- Idler pulley
$18.92 --- (LR006076) --- Tensioner Pulley
$08.97 --- (PK060473 CONTITECH) --- Aux Belt
$112.70 --- (LR021634) --- Motor Mount
$23.24 --- (30680474) --- Torq Mount
$15.76 --- (UD1306) --- Front Brake Pads (Amazon close out price, typical price is ~$75)
$523.23 --- AC repair
$43.37 --- Overdrive pulley ProParts Sweden 28436803
$323 ---- Radiator (Prem Air type)
$281 --- Radiator Fan (Siemens / VDO)


Total $4591

Note: I wouldn't sell it for this price

Here is the quote that I got

S80 Value.jpg (89.62 KiB) Viewed 2344 times

Take care

Paul

[xHeart]

Back to the Challenge,

Note: I wouldn't sell it for this price

Paul,

It is fun to see you re-iginite.

IFRS vs US GAAP.
In either method, the depreciation is a cost to the owner. So, the Cost of Ownership at the Period Ending April 15, 2021 may include everything that keep this car in service (purchase price + parts, insurance, registration, maintenance, etc).

We can pull our hair on it, but for simplicity the depreciation + parts, insurance, registration, maintenance, etc is a cost incurred to date for keeping the car in service. So, for the past 28 months the cost of ownership is an attractive $164 + insurance, registration etc., per month.

What do you suggest a monthly cost of ownership be in your state? AND what offer will you accept?

[pgill]

Back to the Challenge,

Note: I wouldn't sell it for this price

Paul,

It is fun to see you re-iginite.

So, for the past 28 months the cost of ownership is an attractive $164 + insurance, registration etc., per month.

What do you suggest a monthly cost of ownership be in your state? AND what offer will you accept?

xHeart,

That is a great way to think about it.

The cost that you identified is equivalent to the car payment for a new or used car with a small down payment.

This is exactly what I was getting at with the challenge, to put into the terms that you identified.


What is the safest and most reliable used car that you can purchase for under $100 / month?


My actual target is about $90 / month

The present value of my S80 can be thought of as the

Total investment - (target monthly cost * # of months) = Present Value

$10,000 - ($90 * 28) = $7480 (4/15/2021)

(4/15/2022) = $6400

(4/15/2023) = $5320

(4/15/2024) = $4240

To answer your question in three years I would accept the four thousand and five hundred quoted. But in three years the quote will be lower.

But my expectation is that my S80 will never actually be worth equal to or more than the calculated present value.


One last comment

If I were to sell my S80, then I would have to buy another P3 and do the same things that I've done for the S80. And then I would likely have to create a XC70 Challenge or XC60 or V70. And I would really want to know how my S80 is doing with its new caretaker (it would have to be someone that would post updates on MVS)

Thanks

Paul