I figured I'd start another thread to follow my efforts on this car and leave the towing thread for towing info/questions.
The backstory:
1998 V70XC nautic blue, with a known oil burning issue. I went to test drive the car, car started up after a jump, got up to temp, idled fine, drove around the block with no issue. Definite oil burning smell, and some gray smoke out the tailpipe. I wouldn't describe it as a thick smoke, but it definitely wasn't wispy condensation.
I go to drive the car back a week later, being told its low on gas. I see the dial on the red line, miles til empty reads 40 miles. I figure I'll stop at a gas station along my way home. Anyways, I made it 1 mile away, I stopped at a stop sign, and the car died on me. I was able to restart it and it ran for a couple seconds, got me over a hump in the road, and then died again, and I slowly rolled onto the shoulder.
I tried starting it again, it didn't work. I figured it was the gas being way lower than I thought it was. I contacted the seller, who came over with two gallons in a can. After filling the car, I turned the key to the second position and let it prime for a minute. It still needed a jump to get going, and it sputtered to life.
From there, it drove great, just a little smokey. I pulled into a gas station, had it filled up with mid-grade, and it started right back up and drove fine. 3.5 miles later, it began running rough, not too rough, just like the passenger side lower engine mount was going bad, for a comparison. I also got a check engine code. I pulled into a parking lot, parked on a slight nose down slope, and read the code. P0204. I received it for "injector 4 low signal" and "injector 4 open circuit". I unplugged the injector and tried to start the car to see if it would make a difference. The car didn't start. I plugged it back in, car didn't start.
I had another 1998 V70XC with me (black car), so I swapped the idle air control valve. The one from the blue car worked in the black car, but the blue car wouldn't start with the known good IACV from the black car. Someone who stopped to help said he was a mechanic, he checked the spark, said it was there but looked weak. I could hear the fuel pump kick on when I put the key in position 2. I tried unplugging the MAF, cleaning contacts, it wouldn't start with MAF unplugged or plugged. I checked vacuum lines all over the engine bay. Could smell fuel in intake manifold, had no blockage on the air intake, and I had spark. I ended up locking it and giving up for the night.
When I came back to pick up the car, we tried to give it another start. It ended up backfiring and blowing out the rear cam seals, which had been leaking already. That was our sign to start pushing to get this car up and loaded by hand.
Once it was home, I found that the plugs were oil fouled, but the cylinders were not as crusty as I thought they'd be. PTC was clogged, and the smaller vacuum elbow on the back was totally destroyed. There was no axial play in the turbo shaft, and minimal lateral play. The rear cam seals looked like they had been leaking for a while, and the distributor was gummed up with old oil. There had been a leaky battery in the car at some time in the past and there was some stripped paint under the tray, and the ground there had some corrosion.
It's been suggested that it is possibly the fuel pump. but I have more investigating to do.
1998 V70XC burning oil and crank no start
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jsrnsis
- Posts: 294
- Joined: 26 April 2021
- Year and Model: P80 enjoyer
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1998 V70XC burning oil and crank no start
1998 V70XC black 183xxx
2014 S80 T6 AWD 110xxx
1998 V70XC nautic blue 155xxx
1997 850 GLT 123xxx
2024 Honda CRF110F
Previous Volvos:
1997 850 GLT 239,577
1998 V70 NA silver 202,510
1994 850 NA gray 125,000
1998 V70 NA white 163xxx
2014 S80 T6 AWD 110xxx
1998 V70XC nautic blue 155xxx
1997 850 GLT 123xxx
2024 Honda CRF110F
Previous Volvos:
1997 850 GLT 239,577
1998 V70 NA silver 202,510
1994 850 NA gray 125,000
1998 V70 NA white 163xxx
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scot850
- Posts: 14885
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It could be the fuel pump, but start with the easy stuff.
You mentioned in your original break down thread that the PTC valve was blocked.
viewtopic.php?t=102793
That is a good sign the PCV system needs overhaul, and would also be a good indicator for your blown out cam seals and oily distributor.
As a minimum, I would try cleaning the PTC valve and the distributor of oil and try to see if the car will then start. If you also have access to a known good fuel pump relay try that as well.
Can you hear the fuel pump prime? If you can't, try to listen at an open fuel cap with someone else turning the key. Allow maybe 30 minutes between tries to allow pressure to drop to make sure the pump is working.
I try to warn others to run the turbo cars on 91 at least and keep the tanks at least 1/4 full or you will strain the pump to failure due to it getting hotter. With AWD pumps now NLA, Abscate had his thread on fixing his S70 AWD and an alternate pump that he used and how to make it work for this application.
Good Luck!
Neil.
You mentioned in your original break down thread that the PTC valve was blocked.
viewtopic.php?t=102793
That is a good sign the PCV system needs overhaul, and would also be a good indicator for your blown out cam seals and oily distributor.
As a minimum, I would try cleaning the PTC valve and the distributor of oil and try to see if the car will then start. If you also have access to a known good fuel pump relay try that as well.
Can you hear the fuel pump prime? If you can't, try to listen at an open fuel cap with someone else turning the key. Allow maybe 30 minutes between tries to allow pressure to drop to make sure the pump is working.
I try to warn others to run the turbo cars on 91 at least and keep the tanks at least 1/4 full or you will strain the pump to failure due to it getting hotter. With AWD pumps now NLA, Abscate had his thread on fixing his S70 AWD and an alternate pump that he used and how to make it work for this application.
Good Luck!
Neil.
2006 V70 2.5T AWD Polestar tune
2000 V70 R - still being an endless PITA
2006 XC70 - Our son now has this and still parked in our garage
2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 Limited
2015 Kia Sportage EX-L - Sold
1993 850 GLT -Sold
1998 V70 XC - Sold
1997 Volvo 850 SE NA - Went to niece in California - Sold
2000 V70 SE NA - Sold
2000 V70 R - still being an endless PITA
2006 XC70 - Our son now has this and still parked in our garage
2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 Limited
2015 Kia Sportage EX-L - Sold
1993 850 GLT -Sold
1998 V70 XC - Sold
1997 Volvo 850 SE NA - Went to niece in California - Sold
2000 V70 SE NA - Sold
- wizechatmgr
- Posts: 1798
- Joined: 12 January 2017
- Year and Model: 1999 V70 XC AWD 2.4T
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Check cap and rotor as well as coil. Could be that simple.
But as said before that PCV needs to be done, while you still have a rear main seal... It is also generally recommended to put only premium in these cars. That wouldn't cause an issue already.
Also check for a blown fuel pump fuse, sometimes they blow when it goes low. It also isn't uncommon for the fuel pumps to die right after a refill. Don't ask me why, but it isn't unheard of for people to have 1/2 a tank or more when it decides to go on the AWD vehicles. They're kind of a PITA to replace too...
But as said before that PCV needs to be done, while you still have a rear main seal... It is also generally recommended to put only premium in these cars. That wouldn't cause an issue already.
Also check for a blown fuel pump fuse, sometimes they blow when it goes low. It also isn't uncommon for the fuel pumps to die right after a refill. Don't ask me why, but it isn't unheard of for people to have 1/2 a tank or more when it decides to go on the AWD vehicles. They're kind of a PITA to replace too...
Wisdom requires knowledge as a prerequisite, but knowledge can be developed due to a lack of wisdom.
In order to learn how to fix something, you must first learn how to break it.
1999 V70 XC AWD 2.4 T -- ~231k miles
1998 V70 2.4 NA -- ~184k miles
In order to learn how to fix something, you must first learn how to break it.
1999 V70 XC AWD 2.4 T -- ~231k miles
1998 V70 2.4 NA -- ~184k miles
- MrAl
- Posts: 1700
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Hello again,
I was thinking fuel pump relay myself, but I guess there are many different ways this kind of problem can occur.
What stood out to me the most though in the text of the first post was this:
------ "injector 4 low signal" and "injector 4 open circuit" ------
What would cause that?
Could it be whatever controls that, or the injector itself, or some programming for the injectors?
I was thinking fuel pump relay myself, but I guess there are many different ways this kind of problem can occur.
What stood out to me the most though in the text of the first post was this:
------ "injector 4 low signal" and "injector 4 open circuit" ------
What would cause that?
Could it be whatever controls that, or the injector itself, or some programming for the injectors?
I’ve been driving a Volvo long before anyone ever paid me to drive one.
That's probably because I've been driving one since 2015 and nobody has offered to pay me yet.
1998 v70, non turbo, FWD, base model, on the road from April 2nd, 2015 to July 26, 2023.
That's probably because I've been driving one since 2015 and nobody has offered to pay me yet.
1998 v70, non turbo, FWD, base model, on the road from April 2nd, 2015 to July 26, 2023.
- wizechatmgr
- Posts: 1798
- Joined: 12 January 2017
- Year and Model: 1999 V70 XC AWD 2.4T
- Location: Albany, NY area
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- Contact:
To add to what Al just wrote, if I remember correctly you should have +12v on each injector with key on in position II, engine off and the grounds are pulsed to actually actuate it when it sees cam/crank sensor signal. I think I'd follow the wiring for that particular injector and look for chafing. I believe they have a common ground point via ECU, but I haven't actually tracked it down as I haven't had a need to yet. I'd try swapping the wiring for #4 with another and see if the code follows after they were previously cleared. It likely won't run this way, but if you get the code moving, then you know it is the injector. I believe there is known resistance values for the injectors within this forum in case it's just a marginal one. The other thing is it may be a smaller pocket of air.. Could be 4 and 5 are squirting air, really depends on how long it was cranked. Try to get a fuel pressure gauge on the end of the fuel rail to verify the pressure is correct. Also check and verify the terminals aren't full of corrosion. You may want to try some electrical contact spray in both ends to clean out accumulated corrosion. When you get it home, try to some dielectric grease in there after it's cleaned... Where there is little air, there will be little corrosion...MrAl wrote: ↑27 Jul 2023, 02:40 Hello again,
I was thinking fuel pump relay myself, but I guess there are many different ways this kind of problem can occur.
What stood out to me the most though in the text of the first post was this:
------ "injector 4 low signal" and "injector 4 open circuit" ------
What would cause that?
Could it be whatever controls that, or the injector itself, or some programming for the injectors?
Wisdom requires knowledge as a prerequisite, but knowledge can be developed due to a lack of wisdom.
In order to learn how to fix something, you must first learn how to break it.
1999 V70 XC AWD 2.4 T -- ~231k miles
1998 V70 2.4 NA -- ~184k miles
In order to learn how to fix something, you must first learn how to break it.
1999 V70 XC AWD 2.4 T -- ~231k miles
1998 V70 2.4 NA -- ~184k miles
- abscate
- MVS Moderator
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When I was troubleshooting the Duchess, a 1998 NA, I pulled the injectors and determined the definitely don’t “ batch fire” , each injector has its own unique ground connection to the ECU.
They are 12V constant in the plus side, each ground individually fired
They are 12V constant in the plus side, each ground individually fired
Empty Nester
A Captain in a Sea of Estrogen
1999-V70-T5M56 2005-V70-M56 1999-S70 VW T4 XC90-in-Red
Link to Maintenance record thread
A Captain in a Sea of Estrogen
1999-V70-T5M56 2005-V70-M56 1999-S70 VW T4 XC90-in-Red
Link to Maintenance record thread
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jsrnsis
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The wiring loom for the injectors is all cracked and damaged, I will have to check the wires themselves for damage and replace it with a new split loom. Having to go to work really cuts into my Volvo time.
The pump turns on, I can hear it with the windows open. I'll have to start searching out threads for removing the fuel pump without dropping the whole subframe, I remember seeing a good guide, but it probably got lost in the Volvospeed shutdown, as I've not been able to find it again.
I know cutting through the body behind the rear seat is a known shortcut, but I'd rather not do that if I don't have to. If only they just put an access plate there...
The pump turns on, I can hear it with the windows open. I'll have to start searching out threads for removing the fuel pump without dropping the whole subframe, I remember seeing a good guide, but it probably got lost in the Volvospeed shutdown, as I've not been able to find it again.
I know cutting through the body behind the rear seat is a known shortcut, but I'd rather not do that if I don't have to. If only they just put an access plate there...
1998 V70XC black 183xxx
2014 S80 T6 AWD 110xxx
1998 V70XC nautic blue 155xxx
1997 850 GLT 123xxx
2024 Honda CRF110F
Previous Volvos:
1997 850 GLT 239,577
1998 V70 NA silver 202,510
1994 850 NA gray 125,000
1998 V70 NA white 163xxx
2014 S80 T6 AWD 110xxx
1998 V70XC nautic blue 155xxx
1997 850 GLT 123xxx
2024 Honda CRF110F
Previous Volvos:
1997 850 GLT 239,577
1998 V70 NA silver 202,510
1994 850 NA gray 125,000
1998 V70 NA white 163xxx
- foggydogg
- Posts: 2948
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I recall somebody - Robert? - dropping the whole mess far enough to reach Some of the stuff on the top of the tank without having to disconnect the world.
Plus one on the cap and rotor, if it was given an oil bath that isn't helping. Oil soaked plugs rarely perform their best.
Plus one on the cap and rotor, if it was given an oil bath that isn't helping. Oil soaked plugs rarely perform their best.
69 1800s, @500k Death by Rust
94 850 Turbo, T-boned, ambulance for me, crusher for it
97 855 T5, 855 R projects
98 V70R x2, Silver Junkyard rescue, Coral Red
98 V70GLT x2, parts cars
00 V70xc x2, both now dead
62 122s, gone to live in Richmond
56 445 Duett basket project
1950 Studebaker 2R10 flatbed, T9 crashbox
94 850 Turbo, T-boned, ambulance for me, crusher for it
97 855 T5, 855 R projects
98 V70R x2, Silver Junkyard rescue, Coral Red
98 V70GLT x2, parts cars
00 V70xc x2, both now dead
62 122s, gone to live in Richmond
56 445 Duett basket project
1950 Studebaker 2R10 flatbed, T9 crashbox
- MrAl
- Posts: 1700
- Joined: 8 April 2015
- Year and Model: v70, 1998
- Location: New Jersey
- Has thanked: 83 times
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Hi,wizechatmgr wrote: ↑27 Jul 2023, 02:58To add to what Al just wrote, if I remember correctly you should have +12v on each injector with key on in position II, engine off and the grounds are pulsed to actually actuate it when it sees cam/crank sensor signal. I think I'd follow the wiring for that particular injector and look for chafing. I believe they have a common ground point via ECU, but I haven't actually tracked it down as I haven't had a need to yet. I'd try swapping the wiring for #4 with another and see if the code follows after they were previously cleared. It likely won't run this way, but if you get the code moving, then you know it is the injector. I believe there is known resistance values for the injectors within this forum in case it's just a marginal one. The other thing is it may be a smaller pocket of air.. Could be 4 and 5 are squirting air, really depends on how long it was cranked. Try to get a fuel pressure gauge on the end of the fuel rail to verify the pressure is correct. Also check and verify the terminals aren't full of corrosion. You may want to try some electrical contact spray in both ends to clean out accumulated corrosion. When you get it home, try to some dielectric grease in there after it's cleaned... Where there is little air, there will be little corrosion...MrAl wrote: ↑27 Jul 2023, 02:40 Hello again,
I was thinking fuel pump relay myself, but I guess there are many different ways this kind of problem can occur.
What stood out to me the most though in the text of the first post was this:
------ "injector 4 low signal" and "injector 4 open circuit" ------
What would cause that?
Could it be whatever controls that, or the injector itself, or some programming for the injectors?
Is it possible to change out the entire wire for one injector. That is, use say wire #1 on #4, then use the #4 wire for #1. Since #4 was showing the problem, if now #1 shows the problem (probably don't have to clear the codes yet) then you know that the #4 wire was bad because when it was used for #1 the #1 had shown the problem in the codes.
I don't know if that is physically possible though and if they use connectors and if the wires are long enough to swap out like that, so this is more or less a guess. I also don't know how much work it requires to try this.
My main point though is why go after anything else first if the problem shows up in the codes.
When my car stalled out many told me it was the fuel pump too, but it wasn't the fuel pump it was the relay. I figured why go after the hardest thing to fix first (ha ha). Granted, it could have been the fuel pump as well as the relay, so I had a little luck there.
I’ve been driving a Volvo long before anyone ever paid me to drive one.
That's probably because I've been driving one since 2015 and nobody has offered to pay me yet.
1998 v70, non turbo, FWD, base model, on the road from April 2nd, 2015 to July 26, 2023.
That's probably because I've been driving one since 2015 and nobody has offered to pay me yet.
1998 v70, non turbo, FWD, base model, on the road from April 2nd, 2015 to July 26, 2023.
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scot850
- Posts: 14885
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Abscate did a partial drop on his car. He uses nuts and a few lengths of metric threaded bar so he could control how far it dropped.
Can't recall where he had that if it was in his maintenance thread for the Kat or in the general threads for P80's.
Neil.
Can't recall where he had that if it was in his maintenance thread for the Kat or in the general threads for P80's.
Neil.
2006 V70 2.5T AWD Polestar tune
2000 V70 R - still being an endless PITA
2006 XC70 - Our son now has this and still parked in our garage
2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 Limited
2015 Kia Sportage EX-L - Sold
1993 850 GLT -Sold
1998 V70 XC - Sold
1997 Volvo 850 SE NA - Went to niece in California - Sold
2000 V70 SE NA - Sold
2000 V70 R - still being an endless PITA
2006 XC70 - Our son now has this and still parked in our garage
2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 Limited
2015 Kia Sportage EX-L - Sold
1993 850 GLT -Sold
1998 V70 XC - Sold
1997 Volvo 850 SE NA - Went to niece in California - Sold
2000 V70 SE NA - Sold
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