1996 Volvo 850 GLT sedan with 140k -- should I buy?

[ArmyDad]

Hi, am enjoying reading through this site; have become impressed with stories of Volvo reputation for safety and longevity. 19-year-old son will be home soon from Iraq and needs to buy his first car. Must be affordable and extremely reliable and no major problems, as he will immediately drive 1400 miles from Michigan to Texas to his Army base that is distant from major cities, so there likely won't be a good Volvo mechanic nearby.

Great-aunt has for sale her 1996 Volvo GLT sedan -- 140,000 miles, auto, non-turbo, loaded, maintained by Swedish Engineering of Ann Arbor, asking $4200 but discounting to $4000 for my son.

Latest maintenance performed November 16, 2007 at 139148 miles: change oil, filter and oil drain plug gasket; r/r/ wiper blades; r/r thermostat and anti-freeze.

Swedish Engineering future repair recommendations are:

1) Timing belt due to be replaced at 140,000 (which is now) -- no estimate given
2) Transmission fluid is dirty -- est. $185
3) Upper strut mounts are separated -- est. illegible
4) Right rear suspension delta link is broken --recommend replacing both -- est. $980
5) Vehicle will need a four-wheel alignment -- $95
6) Hydraulic motor mounts are collapsed -- $609
7) Recommend a brake inspection at next oil change

The service writer assured our great-aunt that repairs were not urgent.

Test-drove the car today (Sunday, January 20th, 2008) -- appears solid, everything works, no rust, tires and brakes good, a few light scuffs on body sides, and one tiny ding in front end; leather driver's seat cracking, rip in driver's floor carpeting.

Have verbally committed to buying car in son's stead, as he has given permission and favors the car.

Questions:

1) Should I buy this car?
2) If so, is the price right?
3) How critical are each of the repairs recommended by Swedish Engineering? I understand their top-notch reputation for excellence is widespread.

Thank you all for your time and expertise!

[Aftermidnight]

Personally I think it is too high for the non-turbo. Not much of a discount from the Great-aunt (no offense). With all the work needed maybe $2500 range. Timing belt would need to be done right away.
If this is a priority Must be affordable and extremely reliable and no major problems, maybe a used Honda or Toyota. Good-luck.

"were gonna let it all hang out" jj.cale

[JRL]

Price is WAY too high for a private party sale (relative ) with that much work needed.
If the car was in 100% shape, needing nothing, that would be about the correct price but it needs at least $2500 (min.) worth of work RIGHT NOW! (Upper strut mount are at least a $500 job for the pair, maybe more)
$1800 to $2000 or so would be the right number
You may need a new family

[MadeInJapan]

Well, a lot needs to be done on this car, thus the price is too high...agree with the other poster here. On the timing belt, for this time, it's not just the timing belt itself (every other TB change- intervals at 70K) the tensioner, roller, pulley as well as most likely the Serpentine (other belt) and it's tensioner needs replacing. Furthermore, while your doing this, might as well replace the water pump- they usually go right before the next TB change if not done. Other than that, probably needs the PCV system over-hauled. The engine mounts (hydraulic) and rear delta link are no easy task...other things are not difficult. Even the transmission flush (if truly dirty, I would do a drain and fill several times over about 1000 miles) can be done yourself. You you really are going to buy this for your son, I would go ahead and get it in your possession and do these repairs yourself, having it completely ready for him. Have the shock/struts ever been replaced? If not, they are shot at these miles. Does the A/C work? If not, it's most likely the evaporator (common on these cars) which requires the entire dash board coming out of the car and is a 8-10 hour ordeal. All of the "how-to's" are written up in the repair database here. Find them and see what you're capable of yourself. If you're not, and you have to let a mechanic do them, you're in for about 2-3 grand just for repairs at this point....weight things carefully- if it's not worth it pass on it and go with something that doesn't need any or if any, very few repairs.

[ArmyDad]

Thank you for all the replies. Talked with service advisor Corky of Swedish Engineering this morning, which has done the maintenance on this 850 since 08/2004. Good news -- some of the more expensive repairs have been done already, and should not have been listed on the recommendation. As of 08/06/2007, the upper strut mounts and the rear suspension delta link have been replaced, and the alignment performed. So perhaps this car is not as overpriced as first described.

That left the two collapsed hydraulic motor mounts and the scheduled 140,000 mile timing belt replacement, and the dirty trans fluid. I requested that all three repairs be made by the shop. Yes, I do recall now that I could do the trans fluid replacement myself -- maybe. My garage is unheated, though, it's 14 degrees outside right now, and I have no ramps or jackstands anymore, so I'd prefer someone else does that work. My neighbor has owned several long-running Volvo wagons and once had a local guy he trusted with the trans fluid changes, but that guy moved away and my neighbor's next recommendation was Swedish Engineering, even though a trans fluid flush is probably more expensive there than it should be.

My wife's relative has the car and has offered to drive it to the shop later in the week for these repairs. I can always call back and ask to refrain from flushing the trans fluid until I check around.

My question on this is, are trans fluid changes on the Volvo 850 any more complicated than an ordinary American vehicle? Thanks!

[ArmyDad]

P.S. Forgot to say thanks for the reminders about the other items to check, i.e. the a/c and shocks.

The history on this vehicle at Swedish Engineering is:

08/25/2004 First service visit at 123,568 miles.
11/02.2004 Major tune-up: dist. cap, rotor, spark plug wires; r/r right lower ball joint control arm.
08/31/2004 Front plastic air guide broken; replaced.
11/02/2004 Replaced fuel pump.
12/09.2004 New battery.
12/21/2004 Exhaust system repair -- custome weld pipe at catalytic converter
03/31/2005 Oil chg.
06/29/2005 Oil chg.
07/27/2005 Oil chg.;rt. frt. sway bar (illegible)
03/03/2006 Oil chg.
08/03/2006 Oil chg.
08/14/2006 R/r front axle CV, inner and outer
03/14/2007 Oil chg.
07/31/2007 Oil chg.
08/06/2007 Upper strut mounts replaced; broken rear suspension delta link replaced (I don't know if both were replaced or only the broken one).
11/21/2007 Oil chg., wiper blades, r/r thermostat and re-fill antifreeze.

The motor mounts are est. $609, the timing belt $500-$800 depending on whether it needs new seals, and closer to $1000 if a new water pump needed. Trans fluid flush is $185. Worst case now is about $1800. If mounts and belt only, possibly $1100. Tell me if I'm going overboard. But I'd like this car to "need nothing" when my son picks it up. It's his money I'm spending here, so I'd like to economize where possible, but not at the risk of leaving a defect that would haunt him later in the middle of the boondocks in Texas.

Thanks again so much!

[wheelsup]

What we're saying here is $4000 + your repairs out of pocket is WAY too much.

Look under the spark plug cover, if there is oil collected there the PVC system needs replacement, that's ~$600 at the dealer and about 1/3 less if you go to a local shop.

If there is oil there, chances are the RMS seal is blown or will be shortly, that's $800+ at a local shop (check for small drops of oil on ground after driving).

If the evap hasn't been replaced since new you're looking at $1500+ repair to fix that. Ask if the AC has needed to be recharged - if it has than the evap is busted.

There are just so many known problems and unknown issues with that car to be asking $4k. That's ridiculous. I personally wouldn't buy it for more than $1500 even if all that's needed is the work mentioned by your garage (ie assuming PVC is new and evap is in good condition). That would make it worth about $3k which is about fair market value IMO.

But $4k + repairs? No way Jose.

[MadeInJapan]

Good points are made about the PCV system and A/C....listen to the advice here. But $1000 before repairs is below what I would pay...I would be willing to go twice that if the rest of the car is in good shape.

With that said, my other big concerns here would be the Timing Belt and related parts as well as the Transmission fluid. At those miles a total flush is something you might not want to subject this car too, especially since I didn't read a previous flush in the menu of items performed. Drain out all ATF and re-fill (about 4 quarts- half of the total of what's in there, including the fluid cooler, etc.) and let your son drive it to where he's going and then do it again...then in 500 mile intervals do it 2 more times. That should get over 95% of the old fluid out. A straight flush at 140K miles could possibly dislodge sludge in the transmission which could make it go kaput. I've read numerous stories about this from well-meaning owners, trying to get their recently purchased high miles 850 in order.

[JRL]

P.S. Forgot to say thanks for the reminders about the other items to check, i.e. the a/c and shocks.

The history on this vehicle at Swedish Engineering is:

08/25/2004 First service visit at 123,568 miles.
11/02.2004 Major tune-up: dist. cap, rotor, spark plug wires; r/r right lower ball joint control arm.
08/31/2004 Front plastic air guide broken; replaced.
11/02/2004 Replaced fuel pump.
12/09.2004 New battery.
12/21/2004 Exhaust system repair -- custome weld pipe at catalytic converter
03/31/2005 Oil chg.
06/29/2005 Oil chg.
07/27/2005 Oil chg.;rt. frt. sway bar (illegible)
03/03/2006 Oil chg.
08/03/2006 Oil chg.
08/14/2006 R/r front axle CV, inner and outer
03/14/2007 Oil chg.
07/31/2007 Oil chg.
08/06/2007 Upper strut mounts replaced; broken rear suspension delta link replaced (I don't know if both were replaced or only the broken one).
11/21/2007 Oil chg., wiper blades, r/r thermostat and re-fill antifreeze.

The motor mounts are est. $609, the timing belt $500-$800 depending on whether it needs new seals, and closer to $1000 if a new water pump needed. Trans fluid flush is $185. Worst case now is about $1800. If mounts and belt only, possibly $1100. Tell me if I'm going overboard. But I'd like this car to "need nothing" when my son picks it up. It's his money I'm spending here, so I'd like to economize where possible, but not at the risk of leaving a defect that would haunt him later in the middle of the boondocks in Texas.

Thanks again so much!

You're missing one of the biggest items.
If the A/C evaporator has not been replaced by now, it either is not working or the freon was just filled but will leak out in rather a quick fashion.
Do not be fooled, THEY ALL NEED TO BE DONE, at one point or another 100% OF THEM as they all rust and fail and if this one is original and still working, it may be close to a world record for time that the original evap is still good. However, if it is, it will go within a year
This is a 10 hour job and will cost you $1500 bucks. I stand by my imitial figure of 2 grand TOPS for this one or pass and wait.
I will be most happy to try to find you a good one if you can't find one down there

[JRL]

These are high maintenance cars, buy a Nissan, Honda or a Toyota
Seriously