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Help Trouble shoot my 94 N/A 850 issue ;)

Help, Advice and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's P80 platform cars -- Volvo's 1990s "bread and butter" cars -- powered by the ubiquitous and durable Volvo inline 5-cylinder engine.

1992 - 1997 850, including 850 R, 850 T-5R, 850 T-5, 850 GLT
1997 - 2000 S70, S70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70, V70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70-XC
1997 - 2004 C70

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luketrash
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Help Trouble shoot my 94 N/A 850 issue ;)

Post by luketrash »

I've been away for a long while. I had a rough 2007 due to personal life sort of stuff playing out.

Anyway, now that winter is showing signs of ending, my unsolved Volvo problem from the summer of 2007 has reared its ugly head again. Last year, when it got below 70F outdoors, the problem with my Volvo went away.

Last weekend on the way home from Chicago it showed up again and is in full effect, making the car nearly undriveable. I'm just going to lay out all of my issues and what I've noticed again and see if any of you can help me figure out the logical explaination.

The following things may or may not even be related to each other, so keep that in mind when offering up suggestions. And THANKS for any help!!!

Last spring I was having crappy accelleration and could feel a dip in power throughout the RPM range when I planted my footfeed to the floor. When I drove the car hard, the exhaust system gave off a sulfur smell. I took it to my euro repair guy and had him pull the O2 sensor and run a pressure test on the car to see if the muffler or cat converter was plugged. He did this for me and told me there was no pressure issues. At the time I put in a new cap/rotor/wires/plugs.

The car still ran about the same. Something is slightly lacking in power delivery, but the car is fine to drive.

Then in early summer when it got hot, the car started stumbling badly off of idle when I'd give it gas and had a lot of stumbling throughout the RPM range. I had no idea what the cause was and changed the fuel filter, cleaned the MAF, checked my engine codes, etc...

To this day, there are no engine codes being thrown, so I'm left with a shotgun approach to figure out this problem. Like I said, the problem left me in late September, only to return last week.

Here are some other interesting symptoms that may help you guys help me: If I don't drive the car for two or more days it is a BEAR to start. Cranks and cranks and cranks. As if there is no fuel at the rail (Not verified) but after a minute of cranking it will finally fire and run as normal.

Last winter, one of my fuel injectors started leaking gas everywhere and I replaced it with a junkyard item for 20 dollars. It has never leaked externally to the car since. However, I have no idea what condition all of my injectors are in.

When driving it, it almost entirely cuts out but comes back in spurts, finally to hit with full power like "oh yeah, someone wants to go faster!!!" at which point I can get up to speed with the rest of traffic. Once you're cruising at 80mph, the car will maintain speed OK. If you hit a hill and the car has to downshift, the stumbling problem will happen again. It seems tied to the act of giving throttle. If I VERY carefully give throttle, the car will run smoothly throughout RPM range. However, that makes me really slow in traffic and annoys people more than my spastic, jerky cut-in/cut-out driving style.

So anyway, here I am with several thoughts on my mind. Is the fuel pump bad? Fuel pressure regulator? The ignition coil intermittantly failing? The throttle position sensor bad? The MAF or O2 sensors bad??

What are your guy's thoughts? It's totally a fuel delivery problem. I can't tell if the car is running rich or lean when it's cutting out though.

Any help would be appreciated! I'm getting tired of driving my rusted out 4x4 Isuzu pickup ;)
'94 Gunmetal Gray 855 2.4L 100% stock. This is Volvo #7.

Solutech
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Post by Solutech »

Id say your fuel pump . Sounds very very similar to what happened to my old rover . Ran pretty much ok until you gave it power or tried going up a hill . Then the power would drop out alarmingly . Ease off on gas and the engine dropped back to normal until you goosed the gas again . I traced it to the pump when it started to make a whining noise although the problem was there for weeks before the noise started .

luketrash
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Post by luketrash »

Due to the hard starting issue, I'm starting to wonder about this as well.

Is there only one (in tank) fuel pump on the 850? Or does it have both an in-tank and external pump like my 240s did?
'94 Gunmetal Gray 855 2.4L 100% stock. This is Volvo #7.

Ozark Lee
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Post by Ozark Lee »

Is there only one (in tank) fuel pump on the 850? Or does it have both an in-tank and external pump like my 240s did?
There is only one, in the tank. The hard starting often comes back to being a bad check valve on the fuel pump. Sadly, changing the guts of the pump with a Walbro or another aftermarket won't fix the check valve problem as the check valve is built into the pump housing. I know there are inline check valves out there but I don't have a source.

The way to test the check valve is to get a fuel pressure gauge on the end of the rail, start the car, and then see what the fuel pressure does after you turn it off. It should hold pressure. If it quickly bleeds off the check valve is bad.

...Lee
'94 850 N/A 5 speed
'96 Platinum Edition Turbo
Previous:
1999 V70XC - Nautic Blue - Totaled while parked.
1999 V70XC - RIP - Wrecked Parts Car.
1998 S70 T5
1996 850 N/A
1989 740 GLT
1986 740 GLT
1972 142 Grand Luxe

luketrash
Posts: 421
Joined: 15 October 2006
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Location: Ames, Iowa USA
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Post by luketrash »

Could the fuel pump relay be an issue as well?

Last night when it was refusing to start, I was sitting there in my bitter silence. When I turned the key on, I wasn't hearing the fuel pump whir to life, but the 'click' sound was happening insidew the bowels of the dashboard about two seconds after key-on.

I'll have to locate and check out my fuel pressure regulator. I'm guessing if it fails in total, it might cause major issues as well.
'94 Gunmetal Gray 855 2.4L 100% stock. This is Volvo #7.

MadeInJapan
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Post by MadeInJapan »

Hey Luke...good to see you back, my friend!

Lee wrote a great piece in the repair database on jumpering the pins on your fuel pump relay. I would go this route to at least eliminate that from your problem solving. Other than that, I'm in agreement on the fuel pump being the issue but it certainly could be the relay.
'98 S70 T5 Emrld Grn Met/Beige Tons of Upgrades Mobil-1
'04 V70 2.5T Red/Taupe Some Upgrades Mobil-1
'07 S40 T5 AWD 6 speed manual! Silver/Black Stage1 Heico & Elevate
'07 S60 2.5T Blue/Taupe- my kid's Volvo

luketrash
Posts: 421
Joined: 15 October 2006
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Location: Ames, Iowa USA
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Post by luketrash »

MIJ, do you happen to have a direct link to the jumpering of the pins post?

All I found were articles about replacing the capacitors???


I'll give the relay testing a looksee and hopefully that will get me one step closer. I'm heading to Omaha for the weekend, so I won't get to it until Monday. I'm loving this warmer weather though. I have a lot of projects that have been waiting all winter.

The good news is that I still have more cars than any one person needs, so the Volvo being out of commission is only a minor (but annoying) setback. It's almost warm enough to ride my scooter to work.
'94 Gunmetal Gray 855 2.4L 100% stock. This is Volvo #7.

Ozark Lee
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Post by Ozark Lee »

Luke,

Look on the bottom of the relay (103) and you will see 4 pins. Molded into the plastic next to them are pin numbers 31, 31b, 15 and 87. Jumper the socket positions associated with pins 15 & 87. If the pump is good, the car should fire right up.

...Lee
'94 850 N/A 5 speed
'96 Platinum Edition Turbo
Previous:
1999 V70XC - Nautic Blue - Totaled while parked.
1999 V70XC - RIP - Wrecked Parts Car.
1998 S70 T5
1996 850 N/A
1989 740 GLT
1986 740 GLT
1972 142 Grand Luxe

luketrash
Posts: 421
Joined: 15 October 2006
Year and Model:
Location: Ames, Iowa USA
Been thanked: 2 times

Post by luketrash »

I'm jumpering the actual socket with the relay removed, correct?

(not soldering a lead between the pins on the relay and replacing it?)
'94 Gunmetal Gray 855 2.4L 100% stock. This is Volvo #7.

Ozark Lee
MVS Moderator
Posts: 14798
Joined: 7 September 2006
Year and Model: Many Volvos
Location: USA Midwest
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 75 times

Post by Ozark Lee »

I'm jumpering the actual socket with the relay removed, correct?
That's it.


...Lee
'94 850 N/A 5 speed
'96 Platinum Edition Turbo
Previous:
1999 V70XC - Nautic Blue - Totaled while parked.
1999 V70XC - RIP - Wrecked Parts Car.
1998 S70 T5
1996 850 N/A
1989 740 GLT
1986 740 GLT
1972 142 Grand Luxe

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