96 854 NA Oil Leak, dripping from filter area

eriscentro · Post by **eriscentro** » 16 Jun 2015, 18:31

Good afternoon guys. Last month, I did an oil change from (Don't remember the brand) full synth to pennzoil platinum 5W-30 full synth, with a mann W917 filter. Specifically, I did the change on the 15th of May, and have put on somewhere between 1000 and 1500 miles. This afternoon I decided to check my fluids, specifically my power steering (leaks) and oil. I found that the oil dipstick was bone dry. Looking under the car, I found that there was oil dripping from the filter, as well as on the passenger side of the engine, starting a few inches from the drain plug. I reached under and was able to turn the filter about a quarter turn before it felt solid, and wiped off the area. I picked up two quarts of the same oil, and found that the car took about 1.5 quarts to reach the center of the dipstick's lower reference marks. When I got home, I pulled the timing belt cover and checked on the camshafts - the left one looks a little wet, although not much, and there was no oil below it (see attached).
I changed the PCV in January, about three thousand miles ago. At that point, there was no leak whatsoever. Do you guys have any suggestions as to what to look out for? I'm hoping that it was largely due to the filter being a little loose, although oil being in the vicinity of the filter itself leads me to think otherwise. The timing belt, water pump, and I believe the cam seals where changed about 7K ago.
-Thanks, Ben

Post by **Ozark Lee** » 16 Jun 2015, 19:06

You have a couple of things. I think you correctly identified the leak at the filer which is where you were losing the bulk of your oil. The pictures do, however, also show a small exhaust cam seal leak. It won't get better but it doesn't look like it is leaking a lot, certainly not as much as you had to add.

You might want to try some of the high mileage oil formulations. The "High Mileage" oils have additives that soften the seals and, in some cases, the can stop a small leak like yours. Changing the cam seals is a pain due to the limited space between the front of the engine and the chassis, particularly the strut tower on the exhaust cam.

The high mileage blends don't cost significantly more that the standard oils so even if it doesn't work you haven't really lost anything. It can wait for the next oil change, just keep an eye on your dipstick.

...Lee

Post by **abscate** » 16 Jun 2015, 19:12

Oil loss certainly from filter. It is under pressure do it will blow out.

Keep an eye on that cam filter. Is it possible they didn't clean the cam after the TB and seal job?

eriscentro · Post by **eriscentro** » 16 Jun 2015, 19:13

Ozark Lee wrote:You have a couple of things. I think you correctly identified the leak at the filer which is where you were losing the bulk of your oil. The pictures do, however, also show a small exhaust cam seal leak. It won't get better but it doesn't look like it is leaking a lot, certainly not as much as you had to add.

You might want to try some of the high mileage oil formulations. The "High Mileage" oils have additives that soften the seals and, in some cases, the can stop a small leak like yours. Changing the cam seals is a pain due to the limited space between the front of the engine and the chassis, particularly the strut tower on the exhaust cam.

The high mileage blends don't cost significantly more that the standard oils so even if it doesn't work you haven't really lost anything. It can wait for the next oil change, just keep an eye on your dipstick.

...Lee

I just did the change, so I'll wait until the next to do so. Given that I don't have the tools to pull the spark plug cover (and I shouldn't really be working on the car at my apartment), does the area under the spark plug cover have a hole that leads to the cam area? I circled this area in the picture attached. I had some oil under the cover, so I'm thinking it might be the case that some dripped into the cam area.

eriscentro · Post by **eriscentro** » 16 Jun 2015, 19:30

Also, *whew.* I saw a ton of oil on the pan around the filter (several inch radius) so I was pretty worried. I should've checked it sooner - cost me a little over 50 bucks in oil alone after all was said and done! Last time I did a change I left the drain plug a bit too loose. I tend to by the guy who over tightens everything, and I've hear horror stories about making both the bolt and filter too tight, so I always try to be conservative. This especially after my brother and I sheared an intake manifold bolt during the PCV job after our torque wrench unknowingly locked up.
As an aside, the W917 filter felt like a brick out of the box. Definitely seems like quality, so I see why they're so highly regarded.

Post by **Ozark Lee** » 16 Jun 2015, 19:41

I've never really payed any attention to the area you have highlighted, it may go back to the top of the camshaft cover but there would need to be a ton of oil under the spark plug cover for it to get there. The oil under the cover always pools the worst around the filter cap and by there time you get to cylinders 1 or 5 there typically isn't much at all even if the valleys around the center of the engine are full. The picture looks like a classic cam seal leak.

...Lee

Post by **kahl** » 17 Jun 2015, 06:15

Here is a picture of the cam seal.

Post by **cn90** » 17 Jun 2015, 08:18

Sometimes the old filter left behind the O-ring and if you don't remove the old O-ring, you will now have 2 O-rings stacking on top of each other ---> guaranteed leak.

mika · Post by **mika** » 18 Jun 2015, 08:00

eriscentro: its good that you are doing your own work, atleast from now on you will know the correct ways to tighten the filter and the drain bolt. don't want a different tech guessing each time. as already mentioned, the oil cap can leak, and I usually pick up a half dozen or so of the seals and put one on whenever I see oil ontop. Also, the drain plug needs to be snug, but not too tight. A box end wrench works better than a small ratchet if that is all you have (like a 3/8). You will get a feel for it as time goes by. The picture you posted above, if there is a lot of oil underneath the spark plug cover, it might be able to weap down into the timing area. Find a torx 25 and lift the spark plug cover off (it is decorative, maybe a minute or two to remove), and you will see a flood of oil probably. Clean it up and drive on.

eriscentro · Post by **eriscentro** » 18 Jun 2015, 18:38

mika wrote:eriscentro: its good that you are doing your own work, atleast from now on you will know the correct ways to tighten the filter and the drain bolt. don't want a different tech guessing each time. as already mentioned, the oil cap can leak, and I usually pick up a half dozen or so of the seals and put one on whenever I see oil ontop. Also, the drain plug needs to be snug, but not too tight. A box end wrench works better than a small ratchet if that is all you have (like a 3/8). You will get a feel for it as time goes by. The picture you posted above, if there is a lot of oil underneath the spark plug cover, it might be able to weap down into the timing area. Find a torx 25 and lift the spark plug cover off (it is decorative, maybe a minute or two to remove), and you will see a flood of oil probably. Clean it up and drive on.

I should definitely put on a new seal. The issue is that I'm a student and live several hundred miles from home, and have only basic tools where I currently reside. I get most of it done when I go home for breaks or long weekends, which is why I put so many miles on so quickly (~1000 each trip)! When I did the oil last month I pulled the plug cover and had cleaned out all the oil pooled up under the it. I remember seeing some when I did my PCV in January, although I don't remember if I had cleaned it or not, but now it should be fairly dry.
After thoroughly cleaning off the filter area, or at least as best as I could with no jack, I haven't seen any more dripping. When I felt the top of the filter, there was dry oil that had caked onto it, which further leads me to believe that the problem was a leaky filter, since it's only been on there for a month.
The first time I tried to change the oil on the car, we had a hell of a time getting the filter and bolt off. It seems like the mechanic tightened it as much as they possibly could without breaking it. Trying to fit an oil wrench under there can be a pain! When I to do a change last month everything came off nicely and easily, which was far less frustrating. Anyway, thanks for the help guys! I'll post if I happen to notice any other drips, or if the level starts to get low again. Next thing to do is recharge the AC, which seems to be leaking even faster this year