The repair dilemma!

[scot850]

I have pulled the timing belt, water pump and just replaced the crank engine mount and cleaned all the oil leak traces from around the area. There does not appear to be any leaks from the 2 front cam seals and as far as I can tell the crank seal is dry also.

I am worried about replacing these seals without the correct tools and part of me says if it ain't broke leave it alone, but my conscience tells me the seals are 20 years old and ok now but for how long. My friend the foreman at Volvo of course is on vacation for another 2 weeks and I am way behind on my repair schedule. So possibly borrowing the cam insert tool and the crank tool are off the cards for now.

The inlet cam seal is the most accessible, but the rear exhaust one is hard to get at straight on due to the strut tower.

As for the crank seal, can this be done more easily by pulling the oil pump housing? Is the seal part of that, so would it be more accessible when removed?

I have the oil pump kit with the crank seal, the paper gasket and 'O' ring for the oil pump.

What would you do?

Neil.

[tryingbe]

I removed the seal with a small screw driver and a insert it with a flat end punch. No leaks. I did not pull any housing.

I did have the engine out since I was replacing the clutch as well.

[scot850]

I could see how a flat end punch would work, but with the engine installed the rear (exhaust) seal is not accessible with a punch as there is only about 4-5" max. of space between the strut tower and the seal. In fact not even sure there is that much room. I have just received a Lisle tool for removing oil seals like this and it was well recommended for this type of application. I'll update on how well it worked if I pull the seals.

The engine has less than 100k miles on it, but it is 20 years old. Tough decision.

Neil.

[erikv11]

For the front cam seals I made a tool out of a short piece of PCV pipe and a flat plate, with holes in the plate for the three bolt holes in the cam to pull the seal in. I have even used a piece of wood when I didn't have the metal plate yet. I have swapped a few this way, with the engine in the car. You have to be slow and methodical and watch it going in, but it works. But these cam seal swaps were because the cam cover had been off, not because the seals were leaking. So I don't replace them unless I need to or if they are coming out anyway (e.g. if removing cams). Because of cam cover off or because of engine swap, all of my P80 cars except one have new front cam seals. The 96 wagon only has 130k but is still on the factory cam seals, and I won't replace them unless/until they leak. I know the car you are working on is going away but I would probably leave it alone.

I have never changed a single (front) crank seal nor removed an oil pump, even when swapping engines, and I have never had one leak. Knock on wood! I have replaced a couple of rear crank seals, but never a front one. I definitely wouldn't mess with that if it looks good.

[scot850]

Thanks erik, you can always be relied on (like tryingbe and others) to give solid advice. My only worry in leaving them is they are 20 year old seals and if they start leaking, my brother doesn't have the tools, skills or money to do them, so I am trying to eliminate as many issues as possible.

I guess I have to be realistic how much I do as this is a 20 year old car and where do you stop. Both cam seals are bone dry and look ok as best as you can tell, the crank seal is the only one I am suspicious of, as there was a fair amount of oil in this area, and on the crank engine mount (it had failed). But it is hard to tell if this was leaking or just oil from the front of the engine working its way around to the lowest point. I'll pull the crank pulley (I have already removed the harmonic balancer) and check to see if all looks dry in there.

I have e-mailed the service manager to see if he is willing to loan me the 2 tools I need on a one off basis.

Funnily, your idea with the plate and the PVC pipe is along the lines I was thinking. It would be easy to cut the pipe to length so the plate would bottom out at the correct depth for the seal, this would also be short enough to work well on the exhaust cam with the limited access.

I will be near a hardware store tomorrow and I'll look at the PVC piping to look for a possible candidate. Thanks for the great idea!

Neil.

[abscate]

Neil, we have so few front crank seal leaks reported here you should skip it. Like you say, you have to stop somewhere.

[mecheng]

Neil, we have so few front crank seal leaks reported here you should skip it. Like you say, you have to stop somewhere.

I agree, i have zero leaks on both of my cars. If you are concerned, put half a bottle of atp 205 to restore the seals.

[scot850]

The dealer Service Manager has stepped up and offered me the loan of the correct install tools. I like the idea of the easy way out, but it will depend on what I find when I pull the crank timing belt pulley. I may have to at least do that one as there is oil in that area, but may have just arrived there from elsewhere. You all make good sense, and to a great extent the seals should not have been under any pressure as the oil cap was leaking with a plastic hard (original?) seal, none of the PCV pipe had clips on them, the brick hard shortie pipe to the middle of the crankcase from the oil trap was leaking, and the flame trap unit halves were not connected, so no pressure for the last 2 years anyway!

I will see if I can find the ATP 205 over here. I know some of you guys have had success with that stuff.

Thanks again.

Neil.

[sleddriver]

Nice photos TryingBe. First time I've ever seen a clear view of the front of a WB motor with no TB enclosure. I now understand why front cam-seal leaks tend to run fore/aft, yet another "shelf".

What a very TALL, thin motor.....

[j-dawg]

Neil, we have so few front crank seal leaks reported here you should skip it. Like you say, you have to stop somewhere.

agreed! If you had the transmission out, it would make sense to do the rear main, as it's a common point of failure. Failure of the front seal is just not a common problem and you are probably right that messing with it will make failure more likely.

Cam seals are not unheard-of failure points - I've got a dribble out of one of my front cam seals right now - and may be worth preemptively replacing.