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1996 850 Fenix 5.2 intermittant rough running

Help, Advice and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's P80 platform cars -- Volvo's 1990s "bread and butter" cars -- powered by the ubiquitous and durable Volvo inline 5-cylinder engine.

1992 - 1997 850, including 850 R, 850 T-5R, 850 T-5, 850 GLT
1997 - 2000 S70, S70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70, V70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70-XC
1997 - 2004 C70

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kevmarr
Posts: 7
Joined: 5 January 2017
Year and Model: 1996 850
Location: Queensland
Been thanked: 1 time

1996 850 Fenix 5.2 intermittant rough running

Post by kevmarr »

(wow thats a big story. here is a TLDR)
Runs rough when hot from stop at low revs.
Pulls great from 2-5 smooth.
pulled MAF, no difference.
Cleaned IAC and throttle body.
Replaced TPS, thermostat, ECT, voltage regulator.
Can read and reset codes.

Hi all.
long time lurker, first time poster.
Your help has been awesome, and i would like to thank all contributors.
Now my story.
Bought this 96 850 for $500 6 months ago, owner said there was an ABS fault that their mechanic had thrown sensors at and was unable to fix and an acceleration issue that was intermittent.
Had to fix the ABS for RW, found the prob through this site, dry/cracked solder joints, too easy.
Chopped that bad boy apart(someone else had been there before me but didn't do a good job).
Gave it to the junior engineer at work and he fixed it for a carton. :)
Bought a cheap ODB2 Bluetooth scanner, worked out how to use volvo850Diag.
Read and cleared the codes, light gone on dash, only code was for the ABS.

I'm feeling good, got Vince registered and started to drive him around a bit so i could diagnose this strange acceleration issue.
Vince never got hot enough during these first few months, i didn't know at the time that he was supposed to run at 30'clock on the gauge.
The acceleration issue is strange, during these first moths, heat at 4 or 5, at times when i tried to take off from a stop it felt retarded/held back a little bit missing but not quiet.
Had a look around, found a sensor on the air box, googled, disconnected that guy and drove around, problem still exists.
Next sensor along, the TPS, tested it with my digital multimeter, did not seem to climb smoothly, replaced it, problem still exists.
Tested weather i had a problem with the PVC, glove got sucked into the engine a bit, so good negative pressure.
Cleaned throttle body and IAC, tested IAC operation by running with the tube off, it opened straight up on start, while off the IAC has a small gap.
Battery went flat, someone left they key on while charging a phone.
Got battery replaced, was a bit sad anyway.
Read that the alternator i had should be producing 14V, mine read low 13's.
Bought and fitted new voltage regulator.
Vince hardly started and ran very rough, i had disturbed the ECT connectors, they were in bad shape.
Stripped cleaned and reattached, car went back to normal (still intermittent acceleration)
Tested the ECT, was giving intermittent bad readings on the ohm meter.
Ordered a new ECT and thermostat.
Fitted them today, reset the computer, bled the air (new thermostat didn't have the bleeding thingy)
Started and idel was rough and low 7-800, temp starting to build past what was normal.
Idel smoothed out but wen to nearly 1500.
Im thinking WTF.
hit the accelerator and it dropped back down to ~1000.
Took it for a drive and it ran sweet, no hesitation at all.
Got it hot enough for the fan to come on for a short while.
Stopped the car for about an hour.
Took it out again and it was running very rough, like barely moving from a stop, coughing, spluttering until the revs got up a bit, then pulled normally.

So tomorrow i am going to see how Vince drives from deal cold, and will provide further information if i get any.

kevmarr
Posts: 7
Joined: 5 January 2017
Year and Model: 1996 850
Location: Queensland
Been thanked: 1 time

Post by kevmarr »

Well dead cold running was smooth, but it now dose not take long to heat up and start running poorly.
From a stop it struggles to get going, sounds like it might stall, no backfires just spluttering.
Once the revs get up a bit it pulls smoothly.
Talked to my volvo guy he said replace the IAT, removing that makes no difference.
Unplugging the IAC drops the idle a bit, but it comes back up.
Unplugging the MAP stalls the car immediately.

Going to wait for it to cool down and test the O2 sensor.
:(

scot850
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Year and Model: 2000 V70 R
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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Post by scot850 »

What brand of spark plugs and ECT did you use? These cars are very particular what they like and sill run like crap on most brands of aftermarket stuff. Plugs should also be gapped to 0.028".

Have you checked the cam sensor by the distributor cap? Make sure the feed cable to the sensor is not routed close to the distributor or it cuts the signal from the cam sensor.

Try jumping the fuel pump relay and see if that helps. Have you tried checking the fuel pressure at the Schraeder valve on the fuel rail? It should be a minimum of 43psi.

Neil.
2006 V70 2.5T AWD Polestar tune
2000 V70 R - still being an endless PITA
2006 XC70 - Our son now has this and still parked in our garage
2003 Toyota 4Runner V8 Limited
2015 Kia Sportage EX-L - Sold
1993 850 GLT -Sold
1998 V70 XC - Sold
1997 Volvo 850 SE NA - Went to niece in California - Sold
2000 V70 SE NA - Sold

kevmarr
Posts: 7
Joined: 5 January 2017
Year and Model: 1996 850
Location: Queensland
Been thanked: 1 time

Post by kevmarr »

Thanks for the response Niel.

Plugs are NKG R B4R6EKUB, they have 2 prongs?
Leads are FML. Cap is Bosch.
I was going to purchase this kit.
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/volvo- ... tuneupkit1

There are 2 connectors mounted under the cap, one has a flat wire, the other is round with 102460 01 on it, it was nearly touching the lead from the ignition coil so i fed it back down a little.
I don't have a pressure tester, after the pump has primed, there dose not seem to be much pressure in the fuel rail, i press the valve and a small squirt of fuel comes out then just dribbles for a bit.
On one of Roberts you tubes he drains the fuel rail and seem to have heaps more fuel in there.

The thing that stumps me the most is that Vince can run fine when cold through all rev ranges. And then show signs of bad air fuel mix and retarded timing. Give me points and a carby and i will make an engine sing.

kevmarr
Posts: 7
Joined: 5 January 2017
Year and Model: 1996 850
Location: Queensland
Been thanked: 1 time

Post by kevmarr »

Tested fuel pressure at the injector rail and it shows 34 with key on, 38 - 40 with engine running, fluctuates around 2psi while revving.
Test was done with my air compressor so may not be perfectly accurate.

precopster
Posts: 7543
Joined: 21 August 2010
Year and Model: Lots
Location: Melbourne Australia
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Post by precopster »

If it runs and idles well from cold for the first 20 seconds then runs like crap afterwards this is classic faulty O2 sensor behaviour.

What brand of ECT did you fit?
Current cars VW Transporter 2.5TDI, 2010 XC90 D5 R Design

kevmarr
Posts: 7
Joined: 5 January 2017
Year and Model: 1996 850
Location: Queensland
Been thanked: 1 time

Post by kevmarr »

Should i replace both front and rear?
Can i run with these unplugged, dose the engine use a default value like it dose with other sensors when unplugged?

The TPS i used was bosch, the ECT was Hella.

precopster
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Joined: 21 August 2010
Year and Model: Lots
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Post by precopster »

Just the front O2 is the one performing fuel mixtures. Is that a 10 valve car? They're identified by engine type B5252S as I had a couple of them so you need to be careful you don't buy the 20 valve O2s for the Bosch ECU version as they won't work. I'm pretty sure they were made by NTK (NGK's sister company for sensors) When I bought one for my 850 I went online to eBay UK as there were lots of 10V 850s and S70/V70s sold over there.

Hella may be a re-badged OEM who knows. Here's a table of resistance values that the ECT should conform to in case you want to double check it:

0 degrees - 5740 Ohms
10 degrees - 3700 Ohms
20 degrees - 2450 Ohms
40 degrees - 1150 Ohms
80 degrees - 318 Ohms
100 degrees- 184 Ohms
Current cars VW Transporter 2.5TDI, 2010 XC90 D5 R Design

kevmarr
Posts: 7
Joined: 5 January 2017
Year and Model: 1996 850
Location: Queensland
Been thanked: 1 time

Post by kevmarr »

Its a 10V car.
Unplugged front O2 sensor toady, idle was a bit high but it ran great.
Plugged it back in, idle went back down under 1000 car ran like puss again.
Looks like this should be the last sensor.
I checked the resistance values of the ETC sensor, at 25 it was around 2200, so seems right but i will keep an eye on it and measure at different temps.
I am going to pull the sensor tomorrow and see what type it is.
This looks like it should be the right one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VOLVO-850-S70-V ... 2295638194

precopster
Posts: 7543
Joined: 21 August 2010
Year and Model: Lots
Location: Melbourne Australia
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Post by precopster »

Nope that's a Bosch system O2 sensor.

I get part number 3507256 on Vida for the B5252S AU spec engine
Current cars VW Transporter 2.5TDI, 2010 XC90 D5 R Design

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