Hey all, back with my old 1996 Volvo 960. Hope you all can help.
Here's the story(as told by my wife).
"I was on my way home from dogsitting my sister's pets. I was accelerating up a hill on the highway when I heard 'Rrrrrrrrrgggghh' sound. It was like the car had totally died, no acceleration, nothing. I turned the car off, and called you. (me)"
Okay, I got there after she called me about 1/2 hour later. Looked under the hood. The timing belt had SHREDDED half way through, and the serpentine belt had about 1/4 of itself left. It was also shredded. HOWEVER, both were still in position wrapped around the pulleys. Towed the car home, ordered new timing and serpentine belts from Advance Auto Parts. Got them next day, began working. To the best of my knowledge, the timing marks are on the two camshafts, and camshaft cover, and on the crankshaft and the engine itself. Please correct me if I am wrong, and pictures of crankshaft marks would be appreciated. When I went to pull the pin on the tensioner, I noticed it was not tightening properly. Ordered a new timing belt tensioner from volvo. A day and $125 later, I went back to work.
Got it all aligned, went to crank. The car turns, but won't start. Re-did it 2 more times, same thing. What am I doing wrong? I was reading on here about a guy with a '94 960 who said his valves and heads had to be re-done....is this my problem also? I sure do hope not.
If it is indeed not that, then what am I doing wrong? Also, some pictures of those timing marks would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
New problem, timing belt help needed!
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Platinum'96960
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cosmiclobster
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Hi. I just bought a 97 960 (cheap) with a blown engine. I need to replace the entire engine as one of the valves broke off and punched it's way through the top of the piston.
It's scary that both of the belts were chewed up badly. Did you find anything that would have chewed up the belts? Do you think that the belts just wore so badly because of age?
I don't have a picture of the timing marks but the exhaust cam has it's mark at about 2 O Clock
and the intake cam is at 10 O Clock. There are matching marks (V shaped indents) on the timing cover.
The timing mark on the crankshaft is at 12 O clock. It is a tiny mark and I usually put a dab of white out on it to make it easier to see.
As for the tensioner, when it is compressed and you pull the pin out, it needs to put a substantial amount of pressure on the belt to make sure that it doesn't jump a tooth. If either cam jumps a tooth or two while the engine is running, you will almost certainly have a destroyed engine!
One last thing, check the bearings of the tensioner pulley and the idler pulley and the water pump for that matter. My tensioner pulley had 4 or 5 balls missing out of the ball bearing!! If any of these pulleys do not turn freely or have any noticible play in them, you will chew up a new belt pretty quickly!
Good luck!
It's scary that both of the belts were chewed up badly. Did you find anything that would have chewed up the belts? Do you think that the belts just wore so badly because of age?
I don't have a picture of the timing marks but the exhaust cam has it's mark at about 2 O Clock
and the intake cam is at 10 O Clock. There are matching marks (V shaped indents) on the timing cover.
The timing mark on the crankshaft is at 12 O clock. It is a tiny mark and I usually put a dab of white out on it to make it easier to see.
As for the tensioner, when it is compressed and you pull the pin out, it needs to put a substantial amount of pressure on the belt to make sure that it doesn't jump a tooth. If either cam jumps a tooth or two while the engine is running, you will almost certainly have a destroyed engine!
One last thing, check the bearings of the tensioner pulley and the idler pulley and the water pump for that matter. My tensioner pulley had 4 or 5 balls missing out of the ball bearing!! If any of these pulleys do not turn freely or have any noticible play in them, you will chew up a new belt pretty quickly!
Good luck!
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Platinum'96960
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There was NOTHING that looked like a cause for ripping up the belts. The serpentine belt I looked at about a week before this happened. It was looking a little old, and I was going to change it on the weekend, but then this happened. I had to pull PIECES of the timing belt out from around the crankhaft. The timing belt was looking good when I changed the head gasket on this car about 9 months ago, no tear, no nothing. So I really don't know the cause for this happening, other than the tensioner was bad. I hope this motor isn't blown because of this dumb tensioner, IT already cost me $125.
As for the tensioner, water pump, and idler, they were checked when I did the head gasket, I will check them again tonight though....either way, that still wouldn't cause this car to not start. And the timing marks that you describe are just where I have been looking.....and setting.....so after 3 attempts, and PERFECT dead on matching marks....why won't my baby crank? *sigh*
As for the tensioner, water pump, and idler, they were checked when I did the head gasket, I will check them again tonight though....either way, that still wouldn't cause this car to not start. And the timing marks that you describe are just where I have been looking.....and setting.....so after 3 attempts, and PERFECT dead on matching marks....why won't my baby crank? *sigh*
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Platinum'96960
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Also, on the crankshaft itself, for its mark, do I have to take off the damper on the crankshaft to be able to see the marks? Thanks.
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cosmiclobster
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I haven't had this engine apart enough to see the timing mark on the crank, (but then I haven't looked for it either) I've only seen it in a picture - I'll try to find where I saw that picture . . .
If you are not sure where the timing mark is on the crank, how can you say you had the timing set perfect? It's not enough to just have the two camshafts timed to each other, they both have to be timed to the position of the crankshaft! You have to make sure that all 3 timing marks are set so that all 3 line up at the same time.
As for it cranking but not starting, and assuming that all 3 marks are set, open the hose to the intake manifold and squirt some starting fluid in there and crank it. If it powers up for a few moments, then you have a fuel problem. If not, you have an ignition problem.
If you are not positive that all 3 timing marks are set, do a compression test. If you get about 140 PSI then the compression is good and the timing is also good.
Hope this helps!
P.S. I am currently stripping down the engine in my car before I pull it. I have the intake manifold seperated from the cylinder head but I cannot pull the intake manifold out of the car because I cannot get to the nut at the bottom of the intake chamber. Any hints (like the size of the nut)?
If you are not sure where the timing mark is on the crank, how can you say you had the timing set perfect? It's not enough to just have the two camshafts timed to each other, they both have to be timed to the position of the crankshaft! You have to make sure that all 3 timing marks are set so that all 3 line up at the same time.
As for it cranking but not starting, and assuming that all 3 marks are set, open the hose to the intake manifold and squirt some starting fluid in there and crank it. If it powers up for a few moments, then you have a fuel problem. If not, you have an ignition problem.
If you are not positive that all 3 timing marks are set, do a compression test. If you get about 140 PSI then the compression is good and the timing is also good.
Hope this helps!
P.S. I am currently stripping down the engine in my car before I pull it. I have the intake manifold seperated from the cylinder head but I cannot pull the intake manifold out of the car because I cannot get to the nut at the bottom of the intake chamber. Any hints (like the size of the nut)?
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Platinum'96960
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For your intake manifold, I believe the size is a 10mm. Nothing an Mid Sized ratchet, two extensions, and a universal can't take care of. Just be careful when you feel the nut ready to come off, because if it falls, you will need an extendable magnet (like I did.)
As for timing, called a Volvo tech just to be sure. (By The Way: several people had told me I was looking at the right mark on the crank.) I am looking at correct marks. Went one step ahead of you yesterday with the starting fluid, and W-O-W. Thing backfired so hard that the entire neighborhood came outside. Sounded like an M-16 went off. Haha. So that means ignition is okay, and compression is there, right?
As for timing, called a Volvo tech just to be sure. (By The Way: several people had told me I was looking at the right mark on the crank.) I am looking at correct marks. Went one step ahead of you yesterday with the starting fluid, and W-O-W. Thing backfired so hard that the entire neighborhood came outside. Sounded like an M-16 went off. Haha. So that means ignition is okay, and compression is there, right?
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cosmiclobster
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A backfire means that the ignition is good but it tells me that the timing is not correct.
I had a karmann Ghia that had a typical vacuum advance and centrifical advance on the distributor. When I got the car, the distributor advance plate was so gummed up that it took a few seconds for the distributor advance to return to it's normal resting place. Every time the engine de-accerated, it would spit out some heafty backfires. This went on for 2 weeks until I rebuilt the distributor and got all the old gunked up grease off of it. It never backfired once after that. That's why I think it's a timing problem.
Back to your (our) car. There is a camshaft position sensor at the back end of the exhaust manifold. Maybe this sensor has worked loose or is malfunctioning.
If you have a code reader, you could plug that into the OBD2 post and see what your computer has to say. That might be helpful.
Another thing that surpized me is that the camshaft pulleys have elongated holes where they mount to the camshaft. I was wondering how the timing mark can be on the pulley when the pulley is not set to mount on one exact place of the cam. The cam can rotate 10 or 20 degrees depending on where the screws are tightened down. very strange . . .
Thanks for the tip on the intake nut! My next plan was to try to get to if from underneath the car, because my arms are just to big to reach it from the top.
I tried to pull the cylinder head off of my car yesterday.
Put my 14MM impact socket on a head bolt and got out the torque wrench. The wrench only goes up to 140 LBS but I had the little pointer pegged - probably at least 200 LBS. BAM. I thought I finally cracked the bolt loose. Caught my breath and went to take the bolt out, but the wrench turned way too easy. First I thought I had stripped the head of the nut. Nope. I cracked the impact wrench!! It's a heavy gauge of steel meant to be smacked with a sledge if need be, but I split it right up the side!!
I had a karmann Ghia that had a typical vacuum advance and centrifical advance on the distributor. When I got the car, the distributor advance plate was so gummed up that it took a few seconds for the distributor advance to return to it's normal resting place. Every time the engine de-accerated, it would spit out some heafty backfires. This went on for 2 weeks until I rebuilt the distributor and got all the old gunked up grease off of it. It never backfired once after that. That's why I think it's a timing problem.
Back to your (our) car. There is a camshaft position sensor at the back end of the exhaust manifold. Maybe this sensor has worked loose or is malfunctioning.
If you have a code reader, you could plug that into the OBD2 post and see what your computer has to say. That might be helpful.
Another thing that surpized me is that the camshaft pulleys have elongated holes where they mount to the camshaft. I was wondering how the timing mark can be on the pulley when the pulley is not set to mount on one exact place of the cam. The cam can rotate 10 or 20 degrees depending on where the screws are tightened down. very strange . . .
Thanks for the tip on the intake nut! My next plan was to try to get to if from underneath the car, because my arms are just to big to reach it from the top.
I tried to pull the cylinder head off of my car yesterday.
Put my 14MM impact socket on a head bolt and got out the torque wrench. The wrench only goes up to 140 LBS but I had the little pointer pegged - probably at least 200 LBS. BAM. I thought I finally cracked the bolt loose. Caught my breath and went to take the bolt out, but the wrench turned way too easy. First I thought I had stripped the head of the nut. Nope. I cracked the impact wrench!! It's a heavy gauge of steel meant to be smacked with a sledge if need be, but I split it right up the side!!
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cosmiclobster
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Hi again.
I worked on my car today and found the timing mark on the crankshaft.
On the top of one of the teeth on the crankshaft toothed pulley, and at the very end of it which is closest to the engine, there is a tiny V cut into the tooth. This V isn't much bigger than the diameter of a toothpick! You dont need to remove the damper or anything else from the crankshaft to see it, but you will probably need a bright flashlight because it is small! When I first saw it I thought it was a speck of grease until I saw the very definate V shape. Even then, I think it took 2 or 3 full revolution of the crank until I did see it!! There is a raised pointer on the engine casting that resembles the end of a screwdriver sticking out that lines up with the V in the gear.
Hope this helps!
P.S. I did get the intake manifold out. It has a 13MM nut!!
I worked on my car today and found the timing mark on the crankshaft.
On the top of one of the teeth on the crankshaft toothed pulley, and at the very end of it which is closest to the engine, there is a tiny V cut into the tooth. This V isn't much bigger than the diameter of a toothpick! You dont need to remove the damper or anything else from the crankshaft to see it, but you will probably need a bright flashlight because it is small! When I first saw it I thought it was a speck of grease until I saw the very definate V shape. Even then, I think it took 2 or 3 full revolution of the crank until I did see it!! There is a raised pointer on the engine casting that resembles the end of a screwdriver sticking out that lines up with the V in the gear.
Hope this helps!
P.S. I did get the intake manifold out. It has a 13MM nut!!
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Platinum'96960
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Those cylinder head bolts can be a real time... make sure they aren't stretched though. Mine were, and I had to buy a new set for a little over $200. 0_0 I broke 2 torque wrenches doing that. I got an old fashioned one, and ended up BENDING the needle on it, but NOT breaking it. Mind made a screech noise when I took them out. A real pain in the rear.
I re-did her again, and this time I thought the timing is right....but according to you it isn't..... bad news....
When she turns over, I hear a tapping right at the end of her revolution....just as I feared....must be the valves tapping....
Shall look for the V and try again tonight. Thanks for the tips!
I re-did her again, and this time I thought the timing is right....but according to you it isn't..... bad news....
When she turns over, I hear a tapping right at the end of her revolution....just as I feared....must be the valves tapping....
Shall look for the V and try again tonight. Thanks for the tips!
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cosmiclobster
- Posts: 26
- Joined: 12 July 2006
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Hi Platinum
I did get the head off my engine and it was chewed up to say the least!
I posted some pictures on my website - they're pretty gruesome!!
http://cosmiclobster.com/car.html
I did get the head off my engine and it was chewed up to say the least!
I posted some pictures on my website - they're pretty gruesome!!
http://cosmiclobster.com/car.html
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