VVTs don't like Amsoil. Topic is solved

[mrbrian200]

Purchased car 14 months ago with no sign of trouble from the VVTs initially. Within first week filled with Amsoil Signature out of 'habit'. VVTs shortly thereafter developed a tendency to be slow to respond and a little 'sticky' until the engine was good and hot/long drive. Vehicle being new to me I thought possibly this was just the way it is (and I just didn't notice right away), and since they were usually fine after the engine warmed/long drive I put looking at this for a rainy day. Oil has been changed twice since (Amsoil). Switched to Quaker State Ultimate Durability last change a couple months back. Drivability wise these seemed to be getting better from about 1 week after the switch. Last couple weeks seemed to good I plugged VIDA this morning and did VVT tests on a cold start. It would appear this has 100% resolved. Joy!

This is just an educated theory: I do know that Amsoil is BIG on additives and seal swelling/conditioning agents. Something in the VVT system doesn't like this. My best guess would be seals in the solenoid control valves seeing as they are variable DC voltage/oil pressure regulated. It would seem a reasonable deduction that swelled O-rings/seals in there with interfere with normal movement of the actuator. I have not been able to find much information regarding the internal workings of the VVT hubs themselves, so I can't really speculate but problems from swelled O-rings/seals inside the hubs can't be ruled out either.

Have a good day!

[jimmy57]

There are no seals inside the CVVT solenoids.
Have you checked the oil pressure of engine?
What viscosity Amsoil and what viscosity of the QS?
How are you gauging that the CVVT s are sluggish?

[crankycar]

Hey I have a 2004 2.5T and it thrives on Delo 400 LE, took awhile to clean up, but I used it as it is a oil designed for HD use, I am not one for extended oil change intervals, got me car and it lacked service by previos owner, did the CCVent clean and took valve cover, and pan off, was so so so dirty, but that is a issue with extended, used Oven cleaner and sprayed stuff down, used solvent gun and washed, that was all that would touch the varnish and then 2 oil changes and filter changes, with Delo and then am at 3000k and ready to change soon, oil stayed clean, but did its job of washing, do this as was a career HD mechanic, I don't use synthetics, the base oil is oil, the additives to my thinking don't last as they are designed to store acids, dirt and the rest that we want out of our engines, I even use it in my VW TDI ALH non PD and that car loves it, as does my Duramax, that is my 2bits worth, VW at 268K Duramax at 160K and Volvo at 230K so I get life from them. thanks for listening.

[vtl]

Hey I have a 2004 2.5T and i... I don't use synthetics

This engine gets hot. Mineral oil clogs passages and, most prominently, PCV system. You have to use synthetic oil in turbo engines.

[vtl]

I use Amsoil Signature in all my cars for last 6 years.

05 XC70 has no problems with 0w40, switched a year ago from 5w30, which I used for about 3 years. 80k miles since I own the car.

02 V70 had failed VVT hub, but it was no surprise, because when I bought the car and was doing stage 0, I removed VVT solenoid and saw a partially clogged oil passage, almost fully clogged mesh on gasket and had to disassemble and clean sticky solenoid. This is because of crappy oil used by PO.

2016 XC60T5 is too new to say anything, but I drained factory-filled Castrol at 3k miles, filled with Amsoil Signature 5w30 and did another change at 8k. Now it's at 10k and all looks good.

I did a couple of 5w30 oil tests, it stands for about 7500 miles in B5254T2 (05 XC70), then TBN drops a bit too low. This was 4 years ago, the car was "serviced by dealer", oil was changed in recommended insane intervals using Castrol, which is maybe good for the first few thousand miles, then it kills the engine. Piston rings were partially stuck, I had to treat them a few times, so no wonder oil was degraded in just 7.5k miles.

Signature series oil is a good one. First few drains after years of Castrol will be tar like, until Amsoil cleans out all the gunk. Of course, OCI should be much shorter in such case. Monitor the color of oil.

I'd also inspect VVT system in your engine, it may need attention.

[mrbrian200]

Both 5w30. It is probably worth noting the QS is noticeably is more viscous/dense pouring out of the bottle whereas the amsoil flows comparatively thin like a lighter oil. Mechanical engine/valvetrain noise is noticeably quieter with QS vs Amsoil (Indy tests found via google rates QS-UD 5-30 to have a much higher film strength than Amsoil 5w30 so this is not unexpected). Shear stability is off the charts compared to amsoil (that was the deciding factor in my decision to leave amsoil apart from price hikes that initially got me looking). At +$80 for an oil/filter change it was getting ridiculous. Switch to QS-UD brought it down to around $35. Second choice I considered was Penzoil UP (a group 5 oil) but some characteristics (sheer strength if I recall) were merely in line with an average/good conventional oil.
VVT tests were in VIDA. When cold the VVTs /change would take longer to respond (but would eventually get there). Driveability wise you could feel the engine torque change as a sluggishness that would resolve over the course of a second or two. Initially I thought it was excessive turbo lag. When hot they would respond near instantaneous. I haven't touched anything that should affect this except switch brand of oil. The other case I can think is that possibly the turbo was almost stalling at lower exhaust flow rates forcing the ecu in an unhappy adaptive state that delayed VVT timing calls until other conditions normalized.
Maybe I'm wrong about it being a VVT issue (may have been a symptom), but whatever was going on, it resolved with the switch to Quaker State Ultimate Durability. Both oils are a group 4 full synthetic.

With regard to solenoid seals isn't there something to keep engine oil out of the end bit (electro coil)? No o-ring there or nothin?

[vtl]

QS-UD 5w30 and Amsoil Signature 5w30 (ASL) are pretty close in terms of viscosity: http://www.quakerstate.com/en_us/produc ... r_Oil_.pdf http://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2880.pdf You should not be able to notice a difference.

"Much higher film strength" - how if both oils are mostly group 4? Also I don't see 4 ball wear test result for QS-UD, but ASL's one is very good - the scar is short, meaning the film strength is high.

Whatever has happened, it is not related to performance of Amsoil vs QS-UD, could be just a co-incidence of putting an oil with high cleaning properties to an old worn engine.

[mrbrian200]

Group 4 covers a range of base oils, yes all derived from PAO. But-- different manufacturers tweak the ingredients, fabrication process, and additives. As a general rule a group 4 should be superior to a conventional oil. But that is not always the case. I remember reading about a case where one of the top tier Mobile conventional oils outperformed somebody elses' group 4 full synthetic (I forget which) in every test except low temperature pour point.

[vtl]

Let's not open bitog subforum here I use the same oil that topic starter stated is no good in 3 similar engines (2 now), old/gunked and brand new, no drawbacks.

[mrbrian200]

Let's not open bitog subforum here I use the same oil that topic starter stated is no good in 3 similar engines (2 now), old/gunked and brand new, no drawbacks.

I've been an Amsoil fan for nearly 15 years across 4 different cars with similar experience. Yes it cleans deposits/gunk quite well. The last car, a high mileage Chrysler with the Mits 2.5L, objected to Mobile semi-blend I tried once (on sale), next change straight back to Amsoil without thinking twice. Car before that, GM/Olds 3.8L, didn't seem to care what I put in it aside from easier start below 0 with syn. At the time Amsoil was a premium price above other synthetics by only around 25% so I stuck with it. But that's not the case anymore. Amsoil keeps ticking $ up, others have dropped if you buy jugs and shop around.
This is my first experience where I suspect something may have changed for the better with a different (also very high quality syn) oil. I'm not saying Amsoil is bad. I'm merely pointing an observation something on this specific car doesn't appear to like it. Which is frankly yes, a bit of a surprise after many years of using it.

Gonna stick with QS especially considering the price differential. I could look at the VVTs/solenoids when the weather warms but if they're operating properly there's nothing to diagnose unless a coil resistance is out of spec. The hubs were tight/no play when I replaced the TB 8 months ago at 87k miles. Oil pressure (at idle) sensor read was good/not low whatsoever when last I glanced at that, maybe 4 months ago.