Anti-seize - When to use it?

[Metallo]

Hi all,

I am replacing lots of parts on my car, wheel hubs, ball joints, lower control arms, calipers and so on.

I live in Canada and the amount of effort to remove all the nuts and bolts has been unbelievable.
I'd like to start using the anti-seize (Permatex for instance) but I am not sure if I can apply it to every bolt I removed.

For instance, the 4 bolts locking the wheel hub, the two bolts locking the knuckle to the struts etc.

Is there a rule of thumb to establish if it is advised to 'do' or 'not to do' it ?

Thank you,
Alex

[Roger_850T]

In general my rule is "if I might want to take it apart again, then use anti-seize". (Yes, I grew up in the rust belt.) That said, now I'm trying to think of exceptions. I also clean threads with a brass wire brush, and religiously use a torque wrench for reassembling, so anti-seize as a little thread lubricant helps me to be more consistent.

No:
If it has factory bolts with thread-locker on, then no. (subframe, brake caliper frames to hubs).
Not on brake caliper pins.
Not on O2 sensor.
Make sure it stays off brake rotors, pads, etc.
Generally not needed on ignition parts.

Yes:
Water pump, exhaust studs (it will smoke when you start it,) intake bolts, spark plugs, any accessory mounting bolts, thermostat housing, wheel lug nuts, suspension bushings, wheel hub to housing, frame bolts, bumpers...

I'm sure others will pipe up with more ideas, but that's my thoughts.

Roger

[jonesg]

Hi all,

I am replacing lots of parts on my car, wheel hubs, ball joints, lower control arms, calipers and so on.

I live in Canada and the amount of effort to remove all the nuts and bolts has been unbelievable.
I'd like to start using the anti-seize (Permatex for instance) but I am not sure if I can apply it to every bolt I removed.

For instance, the 4 bolts locking the wheel hub, the two bolts locking the knuckle to the struts etc.

Is there a rule of thumb to establish if it is advised to 'do' or 'not to do' it ?

Thank you,
Alex

The effort might be related to what tool you use, a breaker bar will loosen or even break many bolts.
I have given up working hard and gone over to elec impact tools. Milwaukee M18 impact kicks butt.
WHen I set my garage up in August I'll finally get to use my air tools.

I use anti seize almost anywhere except the water pump bolts (sealant) and inner tie rod threads (red loctite).
If something comes off easy I don't bother.

[vtl]

Don't use regular antiseize on parts that get hot. Permatex turns into concrete-like dry adhesive which makes bolt removal way more complicated job than if you'd use Loctite, even red.

I use grease on steel bolts that go into aluminium parts to prevent or slow down metal diffusion. Marine grease on under-chassis bolts that see salt water. Anything that have rust -> marine grease.

[mrbrian200]

I wouldn't use it on torque to yield bolts unless the OE specifically calls for it there. Such as hub to knuckle and the strut to knuckle bolts. It'll throw off the applied torque and you end up over torqueing which weakens them.

[abscate]

That's important with torque to yield bolts. With lubricant, typical torques fall by 30-40%, so torquing to spec will badly over Tighten them.

You don't to clean torque to yield bolts though, because you are using new ones, right?

I do use lube on lug nuts and put them to 60 ft pounds instead of dry spec of 80 ft lbs

[Georgeandkira]

Anti-Seize on spark plugs remains the big question.
I never did (iron heads) then I did because of chattering / screeching when removing plugs from aluminum heads.
Then I noticed the hardening mentioned above. Could it have clay in it like some old fashioned greases? Sure dries like clay.
People fiercely defend both positions.
If plugs in engines like ours (upright plugs) resist, I crack 'em and give a shot of Kroil or ATF and let it creep down the threads.
Back and forth I twist. 'Sounds excessive but stripping aluminum threads seems like a real possibility.

'Been WAY TOO MANY super rusted lug hardware episodes to skip using it there. It's an ABSOLUTE MUST on locking key anti-theft hardware.

Remember, the 3 flavors of Permatex anti-seize go low to high temperature. Regular (aluminum I think), copper and nickel.
Use the nickel on exhaust hardware.

A teaching Lieutenant in the Coast Guard Reserves I know says, "We use it on everything".

[jonesg]

I believe the coast guard would use it,
you ever feel marine lube? its sticky by comparison.

[abscate]

In salt water you grease everything indeed.

I grease up brake calipers and slide pins in the Northeast. BMW tells you not to do this, but if you go to the service center here in NY, they all do it against factory recommendations.

Caliper attach bolts are a place where I have re-used hardware with Noseize (I use the Aluminum in grease kind by permatex) and then torque to 80% of spec. I do a week inspection after running to make sure they are not loosening, then I don't worry about them.Im typically doing brakes on my cars every 3-4 years, and I tend to do wholesale pads, rotor, and hardware swaps to minimize labor time in aggregate, at higher parts cost.

I use a small dab of Noseize or light oil like 3:1 on the plugs. I don't like them staying in the head for 100k miles.

[Georgeandkira]

Yeah, how can those iridium 100K plugs NOT fuse themselves into their holes?
The 60,000 mile interval for the non-turbo plugs is a money saver but maybe too long.

The first plug change I did on my first V70 ('99) was a screeching horror. Anti-Seize felt like it helped then a plug change in my '02 (which had been A-Sed) resisted. That's when I began working them out with lube and a couple of minutes of time.