XC90 Front end issues ... tire wear Topic is solved

[Volvozzie]

Apologies in advance for the long post - you'll see I am a pedant who is trying to resolve this issue that has been going on for 18 months.

In December 2018, I went put some new tyres on the front of my 2008 Volvo XC90 D5 AWD. The car then had 135,000 kms (about 80,000miles) on the clock. Have had the car since new, no real issues.

The tyre shop noticed the lower control arm bushes were worn and told me that they would not do a wheel alignment until I replaced the bushes. I then replaced the bushes and then had the wheel alignment done in early January 2019 – after travelling about 500kms on the new tyres.

Over the next couple of months, I began to notice outside edges of new front tyres were scrubbing and tyres were screeching especially going around a roundabout. Tyre pressure was fine, I tend to run the pressure about 40psi and get great mileage from tyres as a result. Around this time I also noted the steering wheel did not want to return to centre particularly after going to full lock.

I returned to the tyre shop in April 2019 and they just told me to keep an eye on it. I then chose to go elsewhere to another tyre shop and had them do a wheel alignment (138,000kms). The outside edges of the front tyres were still wearing and the steering wheel would not return to centre from full lock when rolling.

In July 2019 I had the second tyre shop do another wheel alignment (141,600kms), they inspected tie rod ends and ball joints, which were all fine and could see no damage to steering or suspension components. Given the amount of wear to the front tyres (after 6,000kms) they rotated front right to left rear and front left with right rear. The tyres that were now on the front had already travelled 44,000kms but had even wear across the tread and would easily have had at least another 20,000kms left in them.

In August 2019, (142,200kms) I brought these issues to the local Volvo dealership who took the car for a day, charged me $150 to diagnose the problem, but reported that there was nothing wrong with the car. Clearly the wheel alignment was within spec, and they suggested the steering wheel return issue was normal!

While I’m sure it is not related, I had a steering angle sensor fail earlier this year and it was replaced, with the sensor recalibrated (147,200kms).

Scrubbing of the front tyres (tyres which had previously been on the rear) got to the point that they were unsafe and knowing that I had to get new tyres again and a wheel alignment, I took the opportunity to replace some suspension components. I replaced both front struts, strut seats, strut mounts, ball joints and tie rod ends and did a complete flush and replacement of the power steering fluid. (147,300kms).

I then immediately had the two front tyres replaced and had a wheel alignment done. The tyres on the rear were the ones I had purchased in December 2018 and now had 12,300kms on them.

Despite this, the issues persisted. The new tyres on the front are also wearing on the outside edge and have now developed noise as you drive along. The tyres screech as you go around a roundabout on full lock or close to full lock, to the point it feels as though the outside tyre is rolling in under the car. Again, tyre pressures are fine.

So I decided to go back to where it all seemed to begin, the lower control arm bushes. I bit the bullet and replaced the bushes with poly bushes (Powerflex) at 150,000kms. They are supposed to be a bit harder in ride comfort but tougher. I had hoped this was the solution. Unfortunately not.

I am hoping someone here might be able to offer their opinion, while my expensive new front tyres look like they will need replacing again after about 10,000kms.

[MoVolvos]

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Please attach the print out of the alignment spec.

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[oragex]

Was the car in any incident with one of the front wheels hitting a curb ? Was the front strut or spring replaced ? How about the wheel bearings ? Which power steering fluid are you using ?
After replacing the tie rods, at which of those places did you got the geometry done ?
The first thing I would do, it may seems laughable, but I would try to measure the toe myself for the front wheels. It's not going to be perfect, but should give you an idea. I actually did my geometry myself for the past 15 years with tires having uniform wear. www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOEk-BUmNg8
A Volvo tech thinks that some steernig angle sensor codes are actually generated by the Yaw sensor when the wheel geometry is off and the car drives straight with the steering slightly turned - this fools the yaw sensor to think the steering angle sensor is bad

[Volvozzie]

In answer to your questions: the car has not been involved in an accident nor hit a curb. Both front struts were replaced not the springs. Wheel bearings have not been replaced. I have used Penrite LDAS power steering fluid, fully synthetic Volvo 1273.36 and 30741424 spec. The problem was there however before the power steering fluid was replaced. After replacing the tie rods the wheel alignment was done at the second shop.
I will take your advice and try to see whether I can check the alignment myself. I have heard similar regarding the steering angle sensor - I was getting abs service warnings and abs deactivation warnings before I replaced the sensor, so while I don't believe in coincidences, I think that was likely unrelated. Thanks

[Volvozzie]

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Please attach the print out of the alignment spec.

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I had another wheel alignment done today, given the new poly bushes were only installed in the lower control arms yesterday. As you can see from the second page of the attached wheel alignment specs, the toe settings were out by a mile, but this was expected as I had installed new bushes. What was revealed however, as per the first page from the alignment done back in March this year, was that there is some disparity in the recommended toe settings. In March, they were set to a total toe in of 2.4mm, within the given range of 2mm +/- 2.5mm as per "Volvo XC90 4X4".

Today the shop noted another set of values for "Volvo XC 90 2002 -2008: All Wheel Drive" giving a toe of -2mm +/- 2.5mm. So today, we have gone from a positive toe "in" to a negative toe "out". The difference is very noticeable. While the steering wheel still will not return from a full right lock position, from anywhere less than full right lock it returns to centre as you apply the throttle. It appears to return to centre now from full left lock. Car also seems more stable on the road. I am getting some tyre noise but I expect this as the tyres have been worn unevenly for the last 3000 kms.

Interestingly, when I look back on the alignments done in April and July 2019, they were both set to the +2mm toe in spec (2.2mm and 1.5mm respectively). Unfortunately, the first shop who did the alignment at the beginning of these issues did not give me a print out of the spec. I have found a print out from back in October 2015 where the alignment was also done to the +2mm spec when I had a set of 4 tyres installed. That was at just under 99,000kms and the front set of tyres were then replaced at 135,000kms. I'm now wondering if that wheel alignment back then was the cause of only getting 36,000 kms out of those front tyres.

I would appreciate your comments regarding the wheel alignment specs that I have found.

[jimmy57]

15 mm toe in is substantially out. The negative toe-in (or toe-out) has for a dozen years been suggested on P2 models. The rear bushings on front control arms have compliance and when the torque is applied to front wheels to propel the vehicle the bushings yield and the front wheels move to more toe-in. Starting with toed out to a small degree yields small toe-in when in motion. More toe out was also suggested on R models with their wider tires to reduce tire to fender liner scrubbing on full lock turns. The other part of this is that if a customer presents a car to you for alignment and it wears outside edge of tires then you inspect for worn bits, if none found then look closely at camber for it being more positive than suggested settings, and if camber is OK then look at toe-in to see if it is excessive. The toe-in was excessive so that would be the setting that is the cause. Too many (not all) alignment techs only look at green bands on the screen and if it is within the green band it is OK with no concern that tires wear and the setting is at the border of green band specification area that would cause the wear issue. I have worked on a few brands with models known for poor tire wear. Most of these could be resolved with alignments set within tolerance but not in center of spec range but to the border of that range that corrects the cause of tire wear. There is also a contributing factor of tires as some tires just do not wear well on some vehicles. BUT that diagnosis is obtained by verifying that the components in front suspension and the alignment could not be the causes. In this case the toe-in was at a value that eats outer tread off tires on most cars of all makes.

[oragex]

I also had to suffer from shops not paying attention. In fact, I had shops telling me they've done the alignment - but without presenting a paper with the numbers (I didn't even know this had to be delivered), only to find out the release nuts on the tie rods were completely seized for long time so basically those shops just took my money.

[MoVolvos]

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Please attach the print out of the alignment spec.

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I had another wheel alignment done today...

Looking at both Alignment print outs I can only tell you that both times only the front Toe was adjusted. I would have to look at the suspension photos to tell you whether there are other adjustments or potential wiggle room in the suspension during the installation of struts to make a small difference.

As you can see from the alignment video things can get complicated but with most vehicles it's "Set The Toe n Let It Go". What you don't see is the majority of the times the tech will get everything in the green and do a print out first before tightening as the specs will change and some out of range, This is why I always try to get everything to zero or slightly negative (Toe & Camber) as both of these angle help stabilize the vehicle and help it to go straight. Caster does that also but in most cars it is not adjustable but will move with parts change.

At this point the car is mostly within spec although they are on the outer limits. Just let the tires scrub to the new specs unless there is a drastic drivability issue.

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[Volvozzie]

15 mm toe in is substantially out. The negative toe-in (or toe-out) has for a dozen years been suggested on P2 models. The rear bushings on front control arms have compliance and when the torque is applied to front wheels to propel the vehicle the bushings yield and the front wheels move to more toe-in. Starting with toed out to a small degree yields small toe-in when in motion. More toe out was also suggested on R models with their wider tires to reduce tire to fender liner scrubbing on full lock turns. The other part of this is that if a customer presents a car to you for alignment and it wears outside edge of tires then you inspect for worn bits, if none found then look closely at camber for it being more positive than suggested settings, and if camber is OK then look at toe-in to see if it is excessive. The toe-in was excessive so that would be the setting that is the cause. Too many (not all) alignment techs only look at green bands on the screen and if it is within the green band it is OK with no concern that tires wear and the setting is at the border of green band specification area that would cause the wear issue. I have worked on a few brands with models known for poor tire wear. Most of these could be resolved with alignments set within tolerance but not in center of spec range but to the border of that range that corrects the cause of tire wear. There is also a contributing factor of tires as some tires just do not wear well on some vehicles. BUT that diagnosis is obtained by verifying that the components in front suspension and the alignment could not be the causes. In this case the toe-in was at a value that eats outer tread off tires on most cars of all makes.

To be fair, the alignment was only out by 15mm as I had replaced the lower control arm bushes the day before. Same with the first print out from March 2020 when the alignment was done after replacing a number of front suspension components. I was more concerned that there was a 4mm difference between what they were trying to set in March vs what they apparently should have been aiming for (as in the 2mm toe out).
I appreciate the information that you have imparted in your response - I am enjoying learning from such knowledgeable people. Thanks

[ampage]

Hey
I am following this thread with some interest mainly because of the front tire wear on the outside edge and the steering not self centering.
Have you noticed anything in the steering under hard or full throttle acceleration from a low speed?

I just started a thread above with that issue in my 2007 V8.

Thanks and hope you find a fix!