1995 850GLT: Front end Accident, they think its totalled WTH

[RobTheModd]

http://volvospeed.com/vs_forum/index.ph ... for-cheap/

Check that out, hes got 850r parts for next to nothing. 100 for the stock headlights, shipping only for the grille. and so on

[viper69]

http://volvospeed.com/vs_forum/index.ph ... for-cheap/

Check that out, hes got 850r parts for next to nothing. 100 for the stock headlights, shipping only for the grille. and so on

Yeah I see your point regarding salvage title. But my car after repairs, isn't going to drop dead or anything, nothing is truly wrong with it. I know they can't go case by case for insuring at salvage level, but still, it bothers me.

Thanks....I just listed the bumper. I can totally live w/out replacing it. The insurance guy saw a hole the size of a nickel, and said "oh we need to replace the bumper cover" I said it's been there 10 years I don't need a new one.

But he countered and said "you are just saving us money, no problem" I guess his philosophy was, if we are going to pay for the repairs, you might as well get a new bumper.

I wouldn't mind some sort of new bright headlights. But I haven't looked in detail if I just need new glass lenses for the headlights or not. I'm almost positive I'm missing various clips along that region.

Yes, regarding my lights..strangely enough the bulbs, all 4 of them are working. I'm stunned they didn't break. The car is still drivable, but there is definitely a humming sound now. You know when you put your key into the ignition and turn it before you actually start it..and you hear a sort of light electronic hum under the hood. That's itself is normal, I forget what makes that sound. ANYWAY, that sound is now always present, so something w/the engine or electrical connections to that part has been affected.

I've also noticed when I press the power window buttons, say two at a time, there's a quick dimming of the lights that was not nearly as noticeable as before. So something is up beyond just metal parts needing replacement.


As long as they don't total it I'll be happy.

I appreciate EVERY PERSON'S feedback very much.

[anmartin44]

the humming sound is prob the air pump for the vaccum system. check your battery terminals to see if they have been jarred loose. if you dont have a good battery connection that could be the cause of your dimming lights.
have your alternator tested, too.
just out curiosity... what did you hit? and how bad of an impact was it?

[RobTheModd]

if you dont have a good battery connection that could be the cause of your dimming lights.
have your alternator tested, too.
just out curiosity... what did you hit? and how bad of an impact was it?

I believe my alternator is starting to go, as i replaced a battery due to it being DEAD luckally it was just enough to start it as it would not have made it another day... this was about 2 months ago.
And now my headlights dim when i put my windows up and they reach the top but i keep my hands on the buttons. once i let off they brighten back up... its a barely noticible dim.

[viper69]

the humming sound is prob the air pump for the vaccum system. check your battery terminals to see if they have been jarred loose. if you dont have a good battery connection that could be the cause of your dimming lights.
have your alternator tested, too.
just out curiosity... what did you hit? and how bad of an impact was it?

Well I can't check anything under the hood. I really have to wait for the insurance guy to look at it..rather be there when it's opened. I don't want someone to say "hey that wasn't broken before" etc etc. It's just smarter if they are there. I peeked w/a flashlight I can't imagine it's the terminals, but who knows. I will check the alternator.

[E Showell]

Wife's 850 Wagon was totalled this past Summer. Car was perfectly driveable. I bought the "wreck" back from the insurance co. for $75.00 and sold it with a salvage title for more than 10X that to a neighbor. Probably could have gotten 12-15X more in the open market. Replacement V70 has 60,000 fewer miles on it and is three years newer. Downside, had to put a new timing & serp. belt in the new ride.

If you are going to negotiate with your insurer about buying the "wreck" back from them after totalling, be aggressive. I was surprised that the opening offer from my insurer was $75.00 and I jumped on it, but it could easily have been worth it to buy it back if the offer was even $500. Remember this -- you have a 15 y/o car that is damaged. At auction to a wholesaler, the insurer won't get much for it. More hassle than it is worth for them to dispose of it really. Keep this in mind during any negotiations to buy back you car from the insurer after totalling. You'll have even more leverage if you are in a part of the country where Volvos aren't too common.

If the insurer seems inclined to total the car it is worth doing a bit of research to find out what a similar car would cost you -- ebay, craigslist, autotrader, etc. -- and print a few of them out. Same year, engine, options, mileage, condition, etc. Also do an Edmunds and Kelly Blue book rundown on your car's value. Have all of these numbers handy when speaking with the insurance co.

Also worth doing a bit of research into your state's insurance regs. and law. In N.J. where I am, in formulating its settlement offer, the insurer must keep in mind that you are a retail customer and therefore cannot use wholesale prices in their valuation anaylsis. In N.J. a claims settlement check must enable you to buy a similar vehicle (including sales tax) within 30 miles of where your vehicle is principally garaged.

As the insurance company what database or databases they used to come up with the quotation -- autosource, if I recall the name correctly -- is notorious for lowballing vintage Volvos. Tell your insurer this. Ask to see any comparable vehicles they are using for their estimate including the VIN numbers and the area dealers (complete with contact info) at which those vehicles are currently available for purchase. That shut my insurer up pretty quickly.

Do not accept the insurance company's first offer -- they will almost always low ball you -- stick to your guns, be persistent, and ask for their valuation sources -- including sending you copies of the documents they relied on. You should be prepared to send them the documents you relied on -- Edmunds, Kelley Blue Book, ebay, craigslist, autotrader, etc.

Mention your complete service history and meticulous record keeping w/r/t the vehicle, etc.

Do not let the insurer wear you down. Stick to your guns. Be firm and polite, but stand your ground. You can almost always get them up and sometimes substantially. Opening offer for wife's vehicle was less than 2K from the ins. co. of the person who hit her while parked and the vehicle was unoccupied (Allstate -- notoriously bad claims handling) -- and that was for a "repair" when they refused to total it. Insurer wanted to straighten a panel which my body shop said could not really be straightened. We still had collision on the car, so I said F' that and filed a claim with my own carrier who ultimately valued a base model 1996 850 Wagon at more than twice Allstate's "repair" estimate and pursued Allstate for the payout they made to me. Allstate promptly paid my deductible as well.

If you are in N.J. I can give you some pretty specific advice including citations to the applicable section of the New Jersey Administrative Code (N.J.A.C.) relating to insurance claims settlement obligations of insurers in the event a total loss is declared.

[viper69]

Wife's 850 Wagon was totalled this past Summer. Car was perfectly driveable. I bought the "wreck" back from the insurance co. for $75.00 and sold it with a salvage title for more than 10X that to a neighbor. Probably could have gotten 12-15X more in the open market. Replacement V70 has 60,000 fewer miles on it and is three years newer. Downside, had to put a new timing & serp. belt in the new ride.

If you are going to negotiate with your insurer about buying the "wreck" back from them after totalling, be aggressive. I was surprised that the opening offer from my insurer was $75.00 and I jumped on it, but it could easily have been worth it to buy it back if the offer was even $500. Remember this -- you have a 15 y/o car that is damaged. At auction to a wholesaler, the insurer won't get much for it. More hassle than it is worth for them to dispose of it really. Keep this in mind during any negotiations to buy back you car from the insurer after totalling. You'll have even more leverage if you are in a part of the country where Volvos aren't too common.

If the insurer seems inclined to total the car it is worth doing a bit of research to find out what a similar car would cost you -- ebay, craigslist, autotrader, etc. -- and print a few of them out. Same year, engine, options, mileage, condition, etc. Also do an Edmunds and Kelly Blue book rundown on your car's value. Have all of these numbers handy when speaking with the insurance co.

Also worth doing a bit of research into your state's insurance regs. and law. In N.J. where I am, in formulating its settlement offer, the insurer must keep in mind that you are a retail customer and therefore cannot use wholesale prices in their valuation anaylsis. In N.J. a claims settlement check must enable you to buy a similar vehicle (including sales tax) within 30 miles of where your vehicle is principally garaged.

As the insurance company what database or databases they used to come up with the quotation -- autosource, if I recall the name correctly -- is notorious for lowballing vintage Volvos. Tell your insurer this. Ask to see any comparable vehicles they are using for their estimate including the VIN numbers and the area dealers (complete with contact info) at which those vehicles are currently available for purchase. That shut my insurer up pretty quickly.

Do not accept the insurance company's first offer -- they will almost always low ball you -- stick to your guns, be persistent, and ask for their valuation sources -- including sending you copies of the documents they relied on. You should be prepared to send them the documents you relied on -- Edmunds, Kelley Blue Book, ebay, craigslist, autotrader, etc.

Mention your complete service history and meticulous record keeping w/r/t the vehicle, etc.

Do not let the insurer wear you down. Stick to your guns. Be firm and polite, but stand your ground. You can almost always get them up and sometimes substantially. Opening offer for wife's vehicle was less than 2K from the ins. co. of the person who hit her while parked and the vehicle was unoccupied (Allstate -- notoriously bad claims handling) -- and that was for a "repair" when they refused to total it. Insurer wanted to straighten a panel which my body shop said could not really be straightened. We still had collision on the car, so I said F' that and filed a claim with my own carrier who ultimately valued a base model 1996 850 Wagon at more than twice Allstate's "repair" estimate and pursued Allstate for the payout they made to me. Allstate promptly paid my deductible as well.

If you are in N.J. I can give you some pretty specific advice including citations to the applicable section of the New Jersey Administrative Code (N.J.A.C.) relating to insurance claims settlement obligations of insurers in the event a total loss is declared.

I wish I was in NJ. Wow very interesting.

OK here's what I learned today. The claims adjustor is willing to work with me somewhat to repair the car to a "pre-loss" condition, meaning a non-salvage vehicle. That's good, he didn't just automatically total out.

However, I won't be able to get OEM parts on everything. It will be too expensive and then totaled out. I have no intentions of selling car ever. However, my insurance company told me today they would still insure the car w/the current policy, they would just need a copy of the repair work done.

Now, I think something fishy is going on. Here's the deal. I was going to bring the car to Joe's body shop right next to my house, they work on everything, part of the Better Business Bureau etc. JUST to get an idea.
This shop is not part of the recommended body shops from my insurance company, meaning the insurance company won't guarantee the work for the life of the car as long as I own it. The shop offers that guarantee of course, but I may move far away, so it's almost no help there.

Day 1 adjuster looks at car, and happens to mention before I do, "bring it to a few people to look at, bring it to Joe's I've worked with them for years, ..but I'm not endorsing them" (he's not allowed to do that)
Joe's writes estimate with all OEM parts, says car not totaled out in his opinion.

Day 2 adjuster calls me, says if the car can be repaired for 3100, insurance will cover it, car remains as is, that is non salvage. I say to him.."but if I get fixed there then the work is not guaranteed for the life of the car via insurance company..maybe I should bring it to the preferred body shops" He says "if you do that, they won't even 'touch' the car, trying to get it to preloss condition, they will just total it out' He said something, they have a lot of overhead and such..it sounded fishy.

I think I will bring it to one of these recommended places anyway to see what they say.

So it SOUNDS like, I'm faced with getting it fixed locally, with a mixture of OEM and non OEM parts I suspect, but a guarantee only good w/them, so if I move far, IDK where, Alaska, I can't exactly drive down and have a problem fixed for free.

OR, having the car totaled out, then buy it back, get it repaired, still without some guarantee from the insurance, assuming one of their preferred body people totals the car out.

The only thing I don't know yet, is if one of the insurance company's preferred body people will definitely total it out or not.

I guess my main concern is getting it fixed, but maintaining the life long guarantee.

I can't help but think this adjuster is getting some deal w/the body guy I was originally going to go, even though he didn't know I was going to go to Joe's. He's certainly steering me to go with Joe's, but making it sound like it's in my best interest because they are the "only" ones who may be able to fix it to a preloss condition without totaling it out.

[E Showell]

Ok -- Story time again -- Wife's 850, same one totalled last Summer -- was hit in a bank parking lot. Driver and passenger door pretty well crunched -- couple grand worth of damage.

I prosecute claim through other (at fault) driver's insurance company and agree to go with other driver's insurance company's recommended shop since it is located in upscale area and works on lots of BMW, Mercedes, Jags, etc. I figured they must know what they are doing, right?

I pick up the car and notice that there are a considerable number of fisheyes in the paint -- I stopped counting after I had circled 50 with a grease pencil the owner gave me. The replacement used driver door did not shut properly. The interior trim on that door was not properly attached, etc. I point out the various flaws and give him the opportunity to redo the job to a satisfactory standard.

I go back to get the car after the redo. The redo is worse than the original job. I call the insurance company. They send a field inspector to my home. He walks around the car for two minutes shaking his head and saying nothing as I point out and describe the various flaws in the redo by their "preferred provider" shop.

Field inspector tells me the job is nowhere near the level of quality they expect from their preferred shops and that I should take the car to whatever shop I'd like to for them to execute the work properly and to have the shop send the bill directly to the insurance company. My Volvo specialist body shop is now reluctant to take on the job seeing as how the original shop screwed it up. He takes the job and $3,500 later (none of which comes from my pocket) the car is good as new.

Few weeks later I read in the paper that the father co-owner of the body shop the insurance company recommended was indicted for some type of shennanigans.

Moral of the story. If you can, avoid at all costs going through the insurance company's preferred shops. They tend to cut corners to make the repair come in as low as possible so that they continue to get insurance company work.

Someone with experience operating a body shop who does insurance work can offer a contrary opinion, but that has been my relatively limited experience.

Also, depending on the insurance carrier, some actually own their preferred provider shops, so they are making money and reducing their loss by having the work done by shops they own. Allstate may be one of those. I do not recall. Spend some time on the net researching this phenomenon. You may be surprised by what you learn.

[E Showell]

Just an additional note for those of you who may have auto and/or homeowners insurance through Allstate. I had a very bad claims experience with them and did a bit of research. Search for articles about the book "From Good Hands to Boxing Gloves." I may not have perfect recall, but the gist of the stuff I read was this:

Several years ago, Allstate hired the consulting firm MacKenzie & Co. to restructure their claims payment process. MacKenzie recommended something like reducing claims payments from historical averages by something like 20% across the board. They did this by simply offering lower claims settlement payments whether justified or not and battling their policyholders. Result, shareholders benefit -- policyholders, not so much.

Allstate is a stock company which means it exists for the benefit of its shareholders, as opposed to policyholders. If you can arrange things so that you can get your insurance from a mutual company -- which exists for the benefit of its policyholders, not stockholders, you will probably be treated better all around. Might not be the cheapest premiums up front, but many mutual companies pay a dividend, i.e., return of premium at year end based on their actual claims experience.

Again, if you are insured by Allstate, you may want to look around for new coverage since if you have to present a claim you may be in for a tough time and you will almost certainly get less than a fair claim settlement based on what I have read and experienced.

[viper69]

Just an additional note for those of you who may have auto and/or homeowners insurance through Allstate. I had a very bad claims experience with them and did a bit of research. Search for articles about the book "From Good Hands to Boxing Gloves." I may not have perfect recall, but the gist of the stuff I read was this:

Several years ago, Allstate hired the consulting firm MacKenzie & Co. to restructure their claims payment process. MacKenzie recommended something like reducing claims payments from historical averages by something like 20% across the board. They did this by simply offering lower claims settlement payments whether justified or not and battling their policyholders. Result, shareholders benefit -- policyholders, not so much.

Allstate is a stock company which means it exists for the benefit of its shareholders, as opposed to policyholders. If you can arrange things so that you can get your insurance from a mutual company -- which exists for the benefit of its policyholders, not stockholders, you will probably be treated better all around. Might not be the cheapest premiums up front, but many mutual companies pay a dividend, i.e., return of premium at year end based on their actual claims experience.

Again, if you are insured by Allstate, you may want to look around for new coverage since if you have to present a claim you may be in for a tough time and you will almost certainly get less than a fair claim settlement based on what I have read and experienced.

What are examples of a mutual company???