850 engine replacement woes (& Updates)

[bigdaddylee82]

Hello, from an 850 owner. I've used this site for tips/tricks/advice for years, but have just now come upon something that google and the Volvo forums can't answer for me, so now I'm a newbie here.

So I've got an '95 850 GLT at around 215K miles the trusty 5 cylinder overheated and became a steam engine on me. Long story short, it's a paper weight/boat anchor/scrap aluminum. I searched the junkyards "auto recyclers" and found an awesome deal on a 130K mile engine out of a '94 model.

I knew that the engine I got has some differences, than my original, i.e. air pump, tube coming out of the head on the "new" motor and not on my original.

I'm on an off road forum a lot, and there's a hand full of Volvo gurus there as well. I'm quite certain that I can just plug the hole in the head and call it good, but that's only the start of my issues.

I've been working pretty steady on the car since this past Friday, in an attempt to have the Volvo up and running for a trip to see the family (3 hrs away) for Christmas, nothing like waiting until the last minute, huh? I don't want to drive my Jeep that distance, but I've pretty much figured out I'm not going to have a choice.

I've actually got a lot done for a fella working by himself with minimum tools, already made a trip to Sears, Harbor Freight, and Tractor Supply to remedy the areas I was lacking in as I've gone along.

So here's where I'm at:

And here's where I've hit my first real snag, and my reason for Consulting my new imaginary, internet, Volvo Guru buddies .

So if you recall, my car is a '95 with out an air pump, and I purchased a '94 engine, with an air pump. No biggie as discussed earlier I will just plug the hole in the head.

I removed the intake to make it easier to put the new motor in the car, and was just going to swap my original intake onto the new to me motor but found out that this isn't going to work.

The '94 intake and head have larger square ports and runners, while the '95 intake and head have smaller "kidney" shaped ports and runners. The bolt holes line up with the '95 intake on the '94 motor, but the ports on the '95 intake are too small to completely cover/seal the '94 head's intake ports. Sigh...

Here's a picture, '94 on top '95 on bottom:

So there's another "issue," the '94 intake manifold has some kind of vacuum actuated valve that changes the size of the intake runners (you can clearly see the mechanism and the valves/shutters in the picture above). I haven't a clue what this is, but I am assuming it will be fine to just leave the vacuum line off of it and let it stay in the default open position that the springs keep it in without vacuum. Am I correct here?

My next issue, still with the intake manifolds, is that the '95 intake has a threaded port for a hose and some kind of sensor, MAP maybe?, coming off of the bottom, and the '94 intake has no provision for this. I guess I'm going to have to drill and tap somewhere on the '94 manifold to be able to use this sensor.

Here's a picture of the bottom of the manifolds, '94 still on top, and '95 on bottom. You can clearly see the hose and sensor I'm talking about coming off of the '95 manifold.

So other than that one sensor, I think that I can just swap throttle bodies, and associated sensors between manifolds, so the only issues I've come across so far are those mentioned above. I really never expected there to be this big of a difference between model years of motors. Though I would guess, that having the larger intake runners and ports would make a little more power than the smaller ones; so having the ’94 motor might give me a little more pep than the original ’95 motor did.

Anxiously awaiting, feed back, comments, and suggestions.

Thanks,

- Lee

[C@lvin]

Hey Lee. Welcome "officially" to MVS although you've apparently been around a while.

I can't say for sure, I've never done an engine swap, but the difference in manifolds makes me wonder if your new to you engine is from a 2.3 liter turbo charged motor. How does your exhaust manifold compare?

[bigdaddylee82]

Hey Lee. Welcome "officially" to MVS although you've apparently been around a while.

I can't say for sure, I've never done an engine swap, but the difference in manifolds makes me wonder if your new to you engine is from a 2.3 liter turbo charged motor. How does your exhaust manifold compare?

Hmm, interesting I didn't think about that, I was just thinking I might have gotten a "California" motor with a lot more emissions junk.

The new motor didn't come with an exhaust manifold, and I haven't attempted to put my old exhaust manifold on. I'll have to try that when I get home this evening.

I bought a timing belt kit from FCP and water pump from IDP for a '94 naturally aspirated motor, and have them both installed with no issue on the new motor. Though I don't know if those parts would be different on a turbo motor. You can see them on one of the pictures above, the motor that still has the head on it.

- Lee

[Ozark Lee]

The way to handle this is to swap the block out between the manifolds, use the old intake and exhaust manifolds and keep all of the crap that came with them. That keeps your ECU happy since there are so many variations on the emissions stuff.

I normally don't see the baffles on the intake manifold unless it is a '93 or a very early '94 engine. Check the part number on the timing belt and measure its width. You may have essentially a '93 engine engine design which is OK so long as you change the timing belt exchange interval to 50k miles rather than 70k.

...Lee

[bigdaddylee82]

Another Lee in the Ozarks with a Volvo, weird.

Also, thanks for the welcome C@lvin, I neglected to say that earlier.

So, further information that may help shed some light on the issue.

My original '95 motor is a B5254S Ser. # 401146

My "new" '94 motor is a B5254S Ser. # 263560

I bought this Timing Kit. You'll notice that FCP says, "*1994 Volvo 850 Turbo/Non Turbo after engine serial number 131035," and 263560 is after 131035 so I should be good. Just to double check I put my calipers to both the timing belt that came with the new motor, and my new FCP belt.

Original belt is 0.895" wide

FCP belt is 0.907" wide

These are average widths give or take a few thousandths, and the FCP belt is brand new, the engine has only been turned over by hand a few times so it hasn't stretched any. I would expect the new belt to be some wider than the old belt. Even at that the width difference is negligible (0.012").

Additionally my original exhaust manifold fits on my new motor just like it did on my original.

So now what? Have I got some crazy hybrid motor, mix of model year parts? It came from a recycler in St. Louis, I guess someone could have possibly swapped heads at one point in its life?

Regardless of what I've got, I guess I just need some advice as to what I need to do next. I was hoping for someone smarter than me in the ways of the Volvo would say, either "hold it right there," or "sounds like a great idea, let us know how it turns out."

Unless someone chimes in, I think I'm going to continue as planned in my original post.

Ozark Lee, could you fill me in a bit on this "baffle" in the intake? I assume it has something to do with emissions control? Could/should I remove it? It defaults in the "open" position, so my first inclination was to just leave it as is with no vacuum line running to it.

Anyway, thanks so far for the ideas, and helping me brain-storm through this.


- Lee

[bigdaddylee82]

The way to handle this is to swap the block out between the manifolds, use the old intake and exhaust manifolds and keep all of the crap that came with them. That keeps your ECU happy since there are so many variations on the emissions stuff.

...Lee

I meant to address this in my previous post. I can't just swap my original intake onto my "new" engine. While the bolt holes do line up, the intake ports/runners are completely different on the two motors. The original intake manifold's runners are physically too small to completely cover the intake ports on the new motor's head.

I believe I can swap throttle bodies and associated bells/whistles between manifolds and use the manifold that came with the new motor. However this will require me drilling and taping a hole for what ever that sensor/hose is mentioned in the original post.

- Lee

[Ozark Lee]

Ozark Lee, could you fill me in a bit on this "baffle" in the intake? I assume it has something to do with emissions control? Could/should I remove it? It defaults in the "open" position, so my first inclination was to just leave it as is with no vacuum line running to it.

My understanding is that the baffles basically tuned the engine for low RPM torque and then they opened up for top RPM speed. I have personally never messed with one but the folks that have had such a system have reportedly done OK with the system just jammed to the full open position - most of them have died in that position anyway and it should cause no emissions problems. Both manifolds look like they are set up for EGR.

Do you have a part number on the timing belt that came with your replacement engine? If so I can cross reference it to figure out what you actually have. The 0.012" measured difference sounds negligible for a used belt.

Check the actual engine serial number that is stamped on the block above the number one cylinder on the exhaust side of the block. The number on the timing belt cover might have been changed along with a previous engine swap and it may or may not match the actual block number.

From the subframe picture the inner C/V joint looks trashed on the passenger's side. The boot is completely gone.

Your avatar cracks me up. When I was 4 or 5 years old my uncle helped me create a "safe and unsafe" electrical cord show board and I decided to plug them in the wall to make sure. I can still hear my grandmother's organ as the entire house went black and the blower in her organ spooled down. They were not amused with the giant burned spot on the wall and I never saw my cord collection again.

To quote you, "let us know how it works out".



...Lee

[bigdaddylee82]

I'm glad you like the avatar, newbie getting props from a mod .

So I use my "shop" camera for this kind of stuff, and there's a reason it's a shop camera, but hey it takes pictures. I can't say there's any kind of a macro setting though.

I think these are the numbers/letters/hieroglyphs you were asking about Ozark Lee:

This is the "new" '94 motor. Still has its head and one of the studs was kind of in the way, but I believe it says, 1DDDDDW, now I'm just guessing at the "W" part on the end. It could be III, here's where I need the Volvo Gurus again.

The next picture is of the old '95 motor. It was much easier to take, no silly head in the way. I believe it says 1DDDCDI.

Both heads have 6326 cast into them, as if that means anything, they're obviously different.

It's hard to tell what the '94's original timing belt says. I believe it says: 9180954. I think it's an OEM belt as it plainly says Volvo on it.

Maybe someone can make heads or tails of this.

Thanks again, as always for the help, and reading my ramblings.


- Lee

[bigdaddylee82]

Well, I gave up on my deadline in having the 850 ready for my Christmas trip, but I made it to my family's farm. Thanks to an awesome friend who happened to be coming through the area to see his family for Christmas, I didn't have to drive the Jeep.

So the Volvo's transplant won't be a rush job anymore, which I'm sure is for the best, and I'll have plenty of time to address a few other little issues that I wouldn't have otherwise.

I'll be sure to document the process for everyone's benefit/amusement.

Ozark Lee, have you been able to figure anything out from those numbers posted earlier? No rush, just if you get a chance, and thanks.

It doesn't seem to be the PC thing to say anymore, but Merry Christmas everyone! I'm not a "happy holidays" kind of guy .


- Lee

[bigdaddylee82]

I finally got back to work on the Volvo today. I haven't touched it since before the holidays. I found out this past Friday that the house I've been renting has sold, and my roommates and I have got to get out. It's a pretty crappy deal all around, but my roommates and I are pretty much pawns in the situation. So I've got to get my car back together so we can move.

I cleaned up the troublesome '94 intake manifold, and drilled & tapped a hole for the hose and sensor from the '95 manifold. Turns out it was a 1/8" NPT, I was expecting it to be metric.

Here's the modified manifold:

I also got the "new" motor attached to the old transmission, and everything resting on the engine assembly cradle (K member). The assembly is together, loctieted, and torqued. Should (fingers crossed) get the assembly back in the car tomorrow.

Here's the new motor in it's new home:

I've got a lot of clean up to do. I've gone through 3/4 of a bag of Oil-Dri, and have got to get it cleaned up, as well as find a stray nut/bolt or two.

Another snag, I think I inadvertently severely screwed up one of the transmission cooler lines/port on the radiator. I've not taken the time (had the energy) to fully diagnose my blunder, but I believe I've already got a solution.

I placed an order on Summit tonight, and am going to replace the exhaust on this thing while I've got it in the air.

I should have further updates soon. Wish me luck.


- Lee