Timing Belt /Serpentine Belt Change In Progress Questions

[MNCO1]

Nice job and good photos. I fought with that one torz too. I like your bracing setup. I didn't use a torque wrench, just good and tight all around. Getting all the water pump gasket off is a chore. A mirror helps to see the upper corners.

[MNCO1]

Probably the next hurdle is getting the TB on, around the crankshaft. Some have had trouble with that. I was able to put it on and take it off several times. Just a little twist on the belt here and there. A mirror helps you see that peg sticking out that you need to get around. Some talk about jack the engine up a hair or taking the crank pulley off. I was lucky I guess. Maybe it depends on the condition/loft of the right engine mount. Mine was replaced within the last year prior I think.

[1997volvo850]

I tried a razor blade to clean off the old gasket. Difficult doing detail work with a razor blade in
such a confined space. Manged to get the gasket off yet there was still a thin green coloring on the
block in spots.

Ended up using steel wool to clean it off. Worked great for me.

I applied a liquid gasket on the new green gasket to make it stick and provide wiggle room if I
didn't get 100% off the old one off the block. Not sure if this will be a problem in the future.

I am planning to torque all the bolts in this area that I am able to reach with my wrench.

Whoa has some explaining to do. I took my brand new 'Harbor Freight' torque wrench out to
use for the first time and the end that sticks into the socket broke off on my first try.I was only
torquing 15 lb. Looks like an aluminum alloy of sorts. Is Mr Harbor Freight around...

Heading to Sears...

[1997volvo850]

I may have to change this thread to "How to change your timing belt in 4 weeks or less".

Spent some time yesterday and installed the water pump and all my new timing belt components
(tensioner, tensioner pulley, tensioner idler roller) and auxiliary idler roller (regreased).

I tried something a little different on the water pump. The experts can tell me if I screwed up.
Since I'd read that some folks add some stuff to make the gasket stick to the block to make
installing the water pump easier I decided to try the whole operation outside on the floor.

The gasket seems to be the main point of failure with the water pump so I decided to try something.
I applied a thin coat of liquid gasket thinking this will provide some wiggle room if I didn't
get the gasket area completely clean or if I scratched it a little with the razor.

I'm pretty lazy so I decided to have all the bolts ready to tighten down instead of trying to install them
one at a time and drop then a half dozen times...

Here's what I did:

Tools and parts

Lightly tape bolts to water pump.

Pre-Position Bolts

Make sure gasket fits over the bolts.

Bolts installed with tape

The next steps happen very quickly. I test install water pump so I know the path I will use to
install it. From adding liquid gasket to installing the pump is a minute or two. I wanted the
liquid seal to fill any potential leak points so I didn't want to let it dry all the way.

Apply liquid gasket to gasket (you can probably skip the liquid gasket step if you want)

Apply liquid gasket.

Install gasket on water pump.

Install gasket on water pump.

Apply liquid to other side:

Ready to install.

Having the bolts ready to go made this go smoothly. The write-up took several times what the actual install took.

Partially Installed.

Hopefully this will all work just fine when I install the timing belt, auxiliary belt, refill with coolant*, reconnect the
battery, and start the car. *Still debating on changing coolant hosed first.

[Brazuca_ny]

Good luck with your project, just did my TB, its a PITA, but when you actually get to turn the engine over and all was done correctly you'll get the fix up bug, it was really easier than I thought, it took about 3.5 hours, mind you I had all the tools and then some required to perform this, the hardest part was finding the correct tool to release the serpentine belt, used an 1/2 to 3/4 adaptor fit like a glove, my TB looked way worst than yours I was really glad to have been able to get it done before it went, forget the locking tool, don't get freaked out when you see that the cams have moved just align them back to your marks.

after you get it all back together rotate the crank shaft 3 or 4 times the only thing you should feel is the compression from the cylinders, there shouldn't be any other result other than the compression if theres any feel like something striking or the crank shaft gets stuck look at the marks again, the natural compression will deminish when you keep pressure on the crank.

keep us posted.

[Hoov]

The question "What was he thinking?" often arises when I run into these awful design decision that make
maintenance much more difficult. Oh well..[/quote]

So relate to that! A good friend of mine is a wheat farmer in Kansas. He has two sons, one of whom is pragmatic & practical. The other wants every new gizzy offered.
The farm, though substantial, can only support one family. Soooo, he told the son who is practical this will be yours. He told the other "You can not run this place other than into the ground! Pick a profession other than farming. I'm sending you to the school of your choice.
Well, the lad is rather bright & decided to become a design engineer. Did it too!

Upon graduation Russel said to him " Now understand something son. If I ever work on something that you designed & need a thousand dollars worth of "special tools", I will see to it personally your ass gets kicked! ... ... Because YOU know better!!" (Farmers do all their own wrenching, welding, you name it because if they don't, they starve.)

Russel again "They ought to be put into the field reparing equipment for at least six months before anybody allows them to have a pencil in their hand!" ... Amen!

Hoov

[1997volvo850]

my TB looked way worst than yours I was really glad to have been able to get it done before it went, forget the locking tool, don't get freaked out when you see that the cams have moved just align them back to your marks.

keep us posted.

It would be great if folks posted pictures of the their timing belt or serp belts with the approximate mileage/age. Enough
of these would start to plot the deterioration of the various belts over time. Would be interesting to see a picture of
a TB that broke.

[1997volvo850]

The question "What was he thinking?" often arises when I run into these awful design decision that make
maintenance much more difficult. Oh well..

Russel again "They ought to be put into the field reparing equipment for at least six months before anybody allows them to have a pencil in their hand!" ... Amen!

Hoov[/quote]

As a newbie I didn't feel comfortable ignoring the torque specifications. I was more concerned with stripping a
bolt with too much torque than not torquing enough. I was able to torque every bolt EXCEPT for the
torx bolt on the tensioner idler roller. The Volvo dealers must have the appropriate low profile tools.

I thought of the following solution that would have made access to the Torx bolt SO much easier.

If you drill a one inch hole through the wheel well body at the level of the torx bolt you can fit an extension in to
allow for easy removal and easy installation with correct torque. Then you could simply plug the hole and lower
the wheel well liner. Seems like such a small thing to make servicing so much easier.

[1997volvo850]

I finished my timing belt / water pump / coolant flush project on Thursday. I thought I'd post a final
summary for this thread.

The two most stressful points in the timing belt process were pulling the tensioner pin (knowing what
needed to be undone if I made a mistake) and starting the car.

It turned out my timing belt was actually changed at 142K miles. With no accurate odometer reading I'm
estimate upwards of 230-240K at the current time. I still find it interesting the dealer told me they had no
record of changing the belt. So at 90-100K I was due for a timing belt. At what mileage do they normally fail?

Some observations.

My crusty water cog spun with little resistance compared to the new well-greased water pump I installed. I suspect
this water pump MAY have been close to dying and MAY have contributed to the noise emanating from my timing belt
and auxiliary belt area.

As a temporary maintenance I greased the auxiliary drive belt idler roller and the auxiliary drive belt tensioner roller.
The dealer did not stock the rollers and I was not sure which after market roller (except for scan tech) was best to
use.

With all NEW timing belt hardware and the regreased auxiliary belt rollers my engine compartment is the quietest
I've heard it in a long time.

I started using the IPD cam locking to but I wanted to move the intake cam to remove slack between the intake and
crank so I temporarily removed it for this operation. Good thing I marked the timing belt at a few reference points
and transfered it to the new belt. The exhaust cam moved on me and the white marks on my new timing belt saved
me a great deal of time.

I started lining up the belt in the intake cam ( a little different from posted instructions) because I had marks I wanted
to line up. I put the belt on the intake a tooth or so off with the intention of moving the intake cam to remove slack.
This worked great for me.

The white marks on the new timing belt lined up exactly with the picture of where they where on my old timing belt.
I marked the two cams and one under the stub near the tensioner roller. Gave me a feeling of security as I did the
job. This also made it clear my exhaust cam had moved on me. The IPD tool was like a crutch ( I was terrified of
moving the cams and wrecking my engine) but now I understand things better and no longer need the crutch.

Taking the belt off was a pain. I will post some pictures of the two obstacles below (the stub under the crank and
the crank cover bolt mount points.

In order not to destroy my NEW belt I practice putting on and taking of my old belt a few times. Now that I know
how to do this I need another 850 to change the timing belt on. I figure at my rate of speed I'll need to charge $2500
for a timing belt job.

Obstacle of Timing Belt Installation/Removal

Crank Cover Bolt Mount Obstavle

Note that I also placed white marks on the timing belt and crank where the belt contacts the crank. Basically at the
top of the cranks. These were more exact (tooth granularity). These marks were my security blanket and helped me
avoid a potentially time consuming mistake.

Primary Marks

This mark is just below the stub that is right above the timing belt tensioner roller. It aligned perfectly to old timing belt
mark. Photos help with this process.

Secondary Mark

Overall the timing belt / water pump replacement was not difficult. I read the two or three online tutorials and the Hayes
manual two or three times before I attempted this. When I did it I rarely needed to refer to the tutorials other than for
torque settings. Did it over a long period of time (no rush). Getting the lighting right for photos and writing things up
extended the project but I like pictures so I thought I'd post some pictures that I haven't seen elsewhere.

I expect I could do the same job again (water pump, all tension hardware, auxiliary roller regreasing) in 5-7
hours. By the time I need to do this again I may need to refer back to this thread.

That's it. If I think of anything else I will edit this post. Just trying to give a little back to the group. I hope this thread
supplements some of the other excellent tutorials (Lee's/volvospeed/??) out there.

[MNCO1]

Great followup and nice photos again. I read several sources too before proceeding on this for the first time. Doesn't seem like there are any good indicators of when a TB is about to fail. Its too critical to rely on appearance like for a serpentine belt. When in doubt change it.