Starter nightmare

Boobtube · Post by **Boobtube** » 18 Oct 2010, 12:48

I have a '58 Volvo pv444 and I have been having a problem with the starter that I'm hoping someone may have encountered. I purchased the car last year and since the first time I tried starting it, there was an awful grinding noise. I pulled the starter and saw that the front of the pinion gear was worn down pretty badly. I was able to locate a used starter and replaced the bendix assembly so now I was working with a good drive gear. I put the starter back in and I'm still getting that same grinding noise. The flywheel has all it's teeth and I don't see any noticable wear on the flywheel teeth. I slid under the car and removed the flywheel cover and was able, with a screwdriver, to move the starter drive gear into the teeth of the flywheel without a problem. I then had a friend start the car as I watched. It all happens faster than the eye can see. It would seem that the teeth are slipping against the flywheel teeth with moments of catching. I see the fan turn intermittently as it catches. The noise is bad and I don't want to wear down another starter gear. They are really hard to find anymore. The starter is the correct part for the car. It can't really be shimmed since it's only held on with two bolts. All seems to be fitting correctly. Is there such a thing as a weak solenoid that doesn't hold the gear out during starting? I bench tested the starter and it flies right out to the end without any load on it. I'm hoping some ace mechanic out there has encountered something like this. Pardon my verbosity. I wanted to get all the details out.

Boobtube · Post by **Boobtube** » 19 Oct 2010, 11:02

I just wanted to add something to what I wrote yesterday. I climbed under the car again and observed the starter in action. Forget what I said about a weak solenoid because the drive gear is shooting all the way out and staying in place as it turns. What is happening is that the starter gear is slipping and catching on the flywheel. Thus, the loud grind as it slips and then it catches to turn the flywheel a bit and slips again. This is what is happening. It's just puzzling because the teeth on the starter and flywheel both look ok. I suppose there could still be something wrong with the starter that I am not aware of, but I don't know what that could be.

Retired MVS Contributor · Post by **Retired MVS Contributor** » 19 Oct 2010, 13:11

Boobtube wrote:I just wanted to add something to what I wrote yesterday. I climbed under the car again and observed the starter in action. Forget what I said about a weak solenoid because the drive gear is shooting all the way out and staying in place as it turns. What is happening is that the starter gear is slipping and catching on the flywheel. Thus, the loud grind as it slips and then it catches to turn the flywheel a bit and slips again. This is what is happening. It's just puzzling because the teeth on the starter and flywheel both look ok. I suppose there could still be something wrong with the starter that I am not aware of, but I don't know what that could be.

Is this a B14 or a B16?...I am not sure about the B14, but for the B16 you need to check the starter "solenoid-to-fork" distance...You will have to remove the solenoid to do this...There is a lock nut on the solenoid plunger and if adjustment is needed you have to loosen the nut, adjust the plunger length, and then re-lock the nut...The plunger length measured from the front of the solenoid body to the center of the clevis pin hole is 1 1/4 inch...

Good luck...Hope it is your fix, you have a little gem that is getting VERY rare...

Jerry

Boobtube · Post by **Boobtube** » 20 Oct 2010, 14:32

Thanks for that info Jerry. It is the B16 engine. You are right. Parts are getting more scarce for this thing. There's plenty of parts for the B18 and B20. I took a video of the starter in action. You can see that the pinion gear is shooting all the way out but it seems like the teeth are slipping on the flywheel.
http://s1086.photobucket.com/albums/j44 ... arting.mp4

Retired MVS Contributor · Post by **Retired MVS Contributor** » 21 Oct 2010, 06:46

Boobtube wrote:Thanks for that info Jerry. It is the B16 engine. You are right. Parts are getting more scarce for this thing. There's plenty of parts for the B18 and B20. I took a video of the starter in action. You can see that the pinion gear is shooting all the way out but it seems like the teeth are slipping on the flywheel.
http://s1086.photobucket.com/albums/j44 ... arting.mp4

Boobtube:

It looks like it is engaging enough in the video...There is a possible problem with the over-running clutch...The clutch has rollers inside that move on ramps and allow it to engage in one direction but slip in the opposite direction...This protects the starter motor from throwing out the windings if the gear does not disengage and the starter rotor is over revved by the engine...Those rollers can get sticky due to dirt and old or hard grease...I don't remember if the clutch can be disassembled or not...If it can't, I would soak and agitate it in a solvent of some sort such as mineral spirits, or even gasoline...Of course I am sure you checked the spiral and the pinion shift mechanism for hardened grease and dirt...If those parts are dirty the springs get lazy...

BTW, I forgot to mention that when you check the solenoid plunger dimension, the measurement is taken with the plunger fully depressed into the solenoid...

Boobtube · Post by **Boobtube** » 21 Oct 2010, 15:14

OK, Thanks again, Jerry. I'll try cleaning that and see how it works out.