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Battery/Charging issues...still...

Help, Advice and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's P80 platform cars -- Volvo's 1990s "bread and butter" cars -- powered by the ubiquitous and durable Volvo inline 5-cylinder engine.

1992 - 1997 850, including 850 R, 850 T-5R, 850 T-5, 850 GLT
1997 - 2000 S70, S70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70, V70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70-XC
1997 - 2004 C70

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zhenya
Posts: 588
Joined: 15 February 2008
Year and Model: 97 855 T5,98 V70 AWD
Location: Ithaca, NY

Battery/Charging issues...still...

Post by zhenya »

Bah. 3 years into ownership of my '97 855 and I'm still having this issue. That is, the battery seems to lose charge over time, even when driving the car every day. It has suddenly gotten much worse, now that it is cold out, to the point that unless I manually top-off the battery, or drive it every 24 hours, the car will fail to start. Battery is less than 1 year old, replaced once since I have had this problem (Interstate battery, replaced under warranty with bad cell- probably due to being fully discharged somewhat regularly, due to this issue). In the past I have more thoroughly checked parasitic loss, (see this thread), and while I may have an issue with the diodes in the alternator, I'm now leaning towards a bad battery cable.

Can you guys help walk me through testing these cables? Much of what I am finding in the archives is referencing the S/V70's. For example, I don't seem to see the B cable in my fusebox.

You can see from these attached pictures that the battery cables at the posts look awful. Suggestions? Am I on the right track? Can someone show me where in the fusebox I should see the other end of the B cable?

Thanks!

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precopster
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Post by precopster »

Based on the 80mA current draw you describe in the thread, the alternator is still suspect. Remove the main positive feed (12mm nut) from the alternator & check for the current loss. If it's gone you had still better replace the alternator or regulator.

Bad battery cables cannot draw current, as they are simply not completing a circuit. However they can lead to a battery improperly charging while the engine is running if they are corroded.
Once the battery is disconnected an ohmeter can measure their resistance. The earth is easy enough; find a good ground (such as the engine or chassis) and put your probe on it then connect the other probe to the end of the terminal nearest the battery. The reading should be less than one ohm. For the positive cables the same applies, measuring them at the battery terminal end and to the starter motor terminal and then the alternator terminal.
Current cars VW Transporter 2.5TDI, 2010 XC90 D5 R Design

Ozark Lee
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Post by Ozark Lee »

The secondary leads (both positive and negative) look awful. Remove the nuts and throughly clean all of the surfaces on the secondary lead terminals and the main terminal where they mate. I would also get rid of the anti theft switch on the negative lead and just plug the negative terminal directly to the post.

I assume that the lead going to the left from the positive terminal didn't replace the starter lead and the starter lead just isn't visible in the pictures.

...Lee
'94 850 N/A 5 speed
'96 Platinum Edition Turbo
Previous:
1999 V70XC - Nautic Blue - Totaled while parked.
1999 V70XC - RIP - Wrecked Parts Car.
1998 S70 T5
1996 850 N/A
1989 740 GLT
1986 740 GLT
1972 142 Grand Luxe

zhenya
Posts: 588
Joined: 15 February 2008
Year and Model: 97 855 T5,98 V70 AWD
Location: Ithaca, NY

Post by zhenya »

precopster wrote:Based on the 80mA current draw you describe in the thread, the alternator is still suspect. Remove the main positive feed (12mm nut) from the alternator & check for the current loss. If it's gone you had still better replace the alternator or regulator.

Bad battery cables cannot draw current, as they are simply not completing a circuit. However they can lead to a battery improperly charging while the engine is running if they are corroded.
Once the battery is disconnected an ohmeter can measure their resistance. The earth is easy enough; find a good ground (such as the engine or chassis) and put your probe on it then connect the other probe to the end of the terminal nearest the battery. The reading should be less than one ohm. For the positive cables the same applies, measuring them at the battery terminal end and to the starter motor terminal and then the alternator terminal.
Thanks. I will still look into the alternator, but at this point, I think the drain is not the biggest issue - and the alternator seems to be charging ok. I think I am really dealing with two separate issues here - one, the drain (possibly caused by the diodes on the alternator), and two, the fact that the battery is not being fully recharged, meaning that after topping it off with a charger, over the course of several weeks, the battery gets weaker and weaker until on a cold morning or a longer-than-usual sit, it won't start the car. As soon as I charge the battery it runs great for several more weeks until the cycle repeats.

I followed the factory test method for testing the alternator this morning.

Code: Select all

WIRING CONTINUITY TEST
1) Connect a voltmeter between generator B+ terminal and ground. Voltmeter should indicate battery voltage. If battery voltage is not indicated, check wiring between generator and battery.
2) Turn ignition on and ensure generator indicator light comes on. If light does not come on, check wiring between generator and warning light.
Results: 1) Result was 12.28v, same as directly measuring the battery - 12.28v 2) Also ok

Code: Select all

VOLTAGE DROP TEST - POSITIVE SIDE
1) Connect a voltmeter between positive battery terminal and generator B+ terminal. Start engine and run at 2000 RPM. Turn on headlights, rear window defogger and heater blower.
2) If voltage drop is more than .2 volt, check circuit between generator B+ terminal and starter for corroded or loose connections. Also, check circuit between starter and battery positive terminal.
Results: Voltage read 214mV --> PROBLEM

Code: Select all

VOLTAGE DROP TEST - GROUND SIDE
1) Connect a voltmeter between negative battery terminal and generator housing. Start engine, and run it at 2000 RPM. Turn on headlights, rear window defogger and heater blower.
2) If voltage drop is more than .2 volt, check batteryterminals, chassis grounds and engine grounds for corroded or loose connections.
Results: Voltage read 42mV. OK

It looks like there is a problem between the generator and starter or between the starter and battery, correct?

zhenya
Posts: 588
Joined: 15 February 2008
Year and Model: 97 855 T5,98 V70 AWD
Location: Ithaca, NY

Post by zhenya »

Ozark Lee wrote:The secondary leads (both positive and negative) look awful. Remove the nuts and throughly clean all of the surfaces on the secondary lead terminals and the main terminal where they mate. I would also get rid of the anti theft switch on the negative lead and just plug the negative terminal directly to the post.

I assume that the lead going to the left from the positive terminal didn't replace the starter lead and the starter lead just isn't visible in the pictures.

...Lee
Thanks Lee. I will clean up those cables and re-do the above test. The anti-theft switch is my current solution for the battery drain (related, but I believe separate issue - see above), and it works. I can leave my car for over a month and it will start when I return (a common necessity with my job).

Yes, the starter lead just didn't show up in that image, it goes straight down in the photo.

1997volvo850
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Post by 1997volvo850 »

This is probably nothing...a few times recently I've discovered my battery dead on my 1997 850 ...

After recharging the battery and hooking it up I poked around a little...and found that my trunk light
was on with the truck securely closed (pulling the seat forward). It is 'supposed' to shut off when the
trunk is closed. I'm quite sure this is what killed my battery.

I haven't figured out what caused this (faulty truck latch?) but after turning the trunk light switch to the
'off' position I have not had a dead battery.

I do like seeing what's in my trunk at night so I may need to fix this...with a little help from my friends here.

zhenya
Posts: 588
Joined: 15 February 2008
Year and Model: 97 855 T5,98 V70 AWD
Location: Ithaca, NY

Post by zhenya »

Thanks for the thought. I'm 100% certain my issues are not related to anything fused - been down that road already!!

precopster
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Post by precopster »

Ozark is spot on. Remove the theft switch and run it for a week, then see if the battery charges. They have corrodable copper contacts inside (and that's if they are good quality) which turn green as copper does. A light sanding can fix that if the switch is able to be disassembled. If the contacts are coated with zinc or a polished surface & they are corroded just throw it out.
Current cars VW Transporter 2.5TDI, 2010 XC90 D5 R Design

zhenya
Posts: 588
Joined: 15 February 2008
Year and Model: 97 855 T5,98 V70 AWD
Location: Ithaca, NY

Post by zhenya »

Yeah, the switch is quite new, and the problem pre-exists the installation of it.

zhenya
Posts: 588
Joined: 15 February 2008
Year and Model: 97 855 T5,98 V70 AWD
Location: Ithaca, NY

Post by zhenya »

Ok, I've cleaned up all those connections, and everything is nice and shiny. Hard to tell if there is any difference, but I measured the resistance of the + cable from battery to starter (>1 ohm), and from starter to Alternator (>1 ohm), and the ground cables (both >1 ohm). I don't know where the B+ cable terminates to check that one.

I still have a slightly more than .2v drop on the Voltage Drop Test - Positive Side as above - 214mV. This certainly fails the test, if borderline. The connections at the starter and the generator look good. Do you think it's worth changing those cables anyhow?

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