97 850R - Driving Winding Roads - Suggestions Please

[ArchieBrown]

Hi contributors,

I am taking my 97 850R FWD manual on a 133km loop, engaging some of the best winding roads in the world. No - really.
Along for the ride are a couple of lads in hatches - one in a 2010 Golf R and another in a Renault Clio 182 Cup.

The roads look like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-C6EgKWmNs however I won't be behaving quite like the organ donor in that clip. (I used to when I had my WRX - but Im older now).

My ride is completely stock - save for some relatively fresh 225 rubber all round.

There is some anecdotal evidence about understeer and needing to keep the revs high in the 850 to make full use of the power. In my WRX I used to heel-toe downshift and employed a fair smattering of left foot braking to keep it all nice and balanced - which I think may be useful here, but I'm keen on gathering any tips, tricks, hacks or insider information from people who have much more experience than me in getting an 850 moving quickly (and safely) through the bends.

As always, your contributions are greatly appreciated.

Arch.

[Ozark Lee]

The 850s have passive rear steering which makes it really corner like it is on rails but it can get you in trouble if you unload it in the middle of a high speed turn. A slight understeer can instantly turn into a massive oversteer and you are chasing the car if you nail the brakes at the apex. I brake hard just ahead of the corner and then modulate the throttle through the corner to keep things tame and I usually have it on the floor coming out of the turn.

An off camber corner can really mess with you and I try to just roll through the off camber part and then get back on the throttle.

You didn't indicate how many miles (km's) you have on the car but new shocks / struts will help handling immensely. For the absolute best go with Koni Yellows . From there for performance you can use Bilstein HD series shocks and struts but they are very harsh for everyday driving. I use the Bilstein Touring Class shocks and struts and they are firmer than OEM but a nice compromise between ride and handling.

A fresh set of OEM Sacks/Boge shocks and struts don't suck either.

The bushings between the trailing arms control the rear steer and they should be replaced if they are worn. If a bushing breaks in the middle of a high performance turn you are in serious trouble.

...Lee

[ArchieBrown]

Thanks Lee.

Passive rear steering?

Thats cool. Thats even cooler than my speed sensitive stereo, which is another excellent value add I didnt know about when I bought my Volvo. My R has 115 XXX kms on the clock - and according to the mechanics that have worked on it recently, the suspension is in excellent nick. Which is pleasing.

Back to the bends, the key messages are:

1 - Unloading in the middle of the turn (perhaps prompted by understeer) can get me in a world of lift-off oversteer pain. Thats a schoolboy error, but its just the kind of error that I'm likely to make in my first excursion.
2 - Hard braking in, pin the apex - heavy on the loud pedal out.

Does the board have any insight on the rev range that yields the best response, and what kind of brake fade can I expect with stock stoppers running at 20% front and 25% rear wear?

Thanks again

Arch

[confused_al]

If you add a good strut tower brace, especially the one from Volvo (p/n 9204176), you could have a bit more control when speed into and out of curves. I only have an Ipd brace, which is not as good as Volvo's, but I can feel my front end is more stable (less lean) and stay on the course easier than without.
http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/ ... ryID=97450

[jblackburn]

Whatever you do, don't brake in the middle of the corner - if you go into it too fast, just hold on. Braking will send the entire car into a slide that you can't really do much for until the car regains its footing. The rear of the sedans will sometimes slide out, but you can usually let go of the gas and give the wheel a quick jerk in the other direction to get out of it. I slow down for the corner before going into it, and then, depending on the speed, floor it as it's closing out (if it's like 30-40 mph, the turbo takes forever to spool up on the automatic version - stupid gear ratios ), or if I'm coming out of it under 30, wait until I'm done and stomp it and grin about all the noise from 1st gear. Otherwise it'll spin tires and plow straight ahead in a cloud of smoke if you're on the power too soon - with a manual at least you'll have better control.

The powerband of the S70 is really right around 4000-5500 - keep the revs planted in that area and you should pull out of the corners well.

Have fun! I took mine to a track day a couple months after I first got it, and I was outrunning a few BMW's and VW GTI's out there. And twisty mountain roads here are always a blast...when there's not a Prius or something in your way.

[zhenya]

If your suspension is truly in good order, the best thing you can do is upgrade to larger anti-roll bars and the best rubber your wallet can handle. That said, while this is a reasonably balanced car for what it is, it's still a front-heavy understeering pig, albeit one that can be made to handle better than expected (especially in wagon form). A strut bar will help, once EVERYTHING else is in order (and assuming it is installed right - no enlarging the mounting holes!) but for me, this was minor compared to the swaybars, rubber, and koni shocks and springs.

[boosted5cyl]

I honestly didnt find the V70's tendency to push\understeer too bad on the scheme of things, its far from chronic. You just need to work and stab the throttle the right way to keep the turbo spooled where you want it without going wide. Torque steer was a bit nasty for me, but once you are out of 1st year (auto) its fine. Keep the revs above 3500-3600, you'll feel it run out of puff when its time to change up again.

Theres nothing special about how you drive these Volvos really, just stick to the traditional peformance driving rules. They are a very forgiving chassis. I found that the passive rear steering responds well to trail braking, provided you are sensitive enough with the controls to work it. You can get some nice smooth 4 wheel drifts going if you do it right. Longer wheelbase means the car is a little more stable, lift off oversteer is really only an issue if you make a major cockup.

Didnt take me long to fade the stock stoppers on a track day, but I'm an aggressive driver. I dont mean to sound like a killjoy, but to be honest if you are driving fast enough on the road to bake your brakes, you really should be on the track.

[peacock]

ive been VERY happy with the Koni FSD front shocks. great addition to m s70 t5. and for$325 from FCP you really cant get any better of a deal for adjustable shocks.

[ArchieBrown]

Thanks for your input gentlemen.

The day ended up being fantastic - and the 850R handled beautifully. Which was good, because it was in reasonably esteemed company - being a 2010 Golf R and a Renault Clio Cup.
We started super early - and after a coffee and muffin stop in a mist covered country town we found ourselves in a position to play with the loud pedal on entertaining tarmac just after first light.

On the suggestion of a regular, we went through the Reefton Spur first with a view to finishing on the Black Spur about 90 minutes later.

The Golf took point, I drove first wheel and the Cup brought up the caboose. We set a cracking pace, cool summer air being yanked into respective turbos and warm tyres holding tight to nice dry roads. Fortunately the 100km speed limit was rarely broken - due mainly to the roads being as twisty as a your small intestine.

While I belittle the Golf (calling it a Polo or Lupo or anything other than what it is) it was a monster. My 850 managed to keep it in sight for a while, but it was clearly pulling away. When I took point for the last part of the drive, it felt like I had this bloke trying to get into my back seat, maybe to offer suggestions on how to heel toe downshift or to change my CD. Thats what you'd hope for if you spent 60K (AUD) on a hatchback. The Cup was being driven pretty conservatively and spent most of its time well and truly off the pace.

The 850R was a lot tighter and composed than I expected. As long as you followed the basics of driving (ie - not lifting off mid corner etc) there was no understeer, very limited body roll and even the tyres were a lot less vocal than I had predicted. As mentioned in one of the posts above, I shouldnt and didnt get anywhere near cooking the brakes (track days only) so even while we were being loud my stopping confidence was maintained all the way through.

The learnings I took from this were:
1 - Heel toe downshifting is good, keeps the revs in the right range and stops the car from pitching itself too much onto its nose.
2 - The gears in the 850R are long. Very long. I spent most of the time in second and third.
3 - The B5234T4 loves a rev range north of 3.8K to really stay on song.

In short, I was left thinking that the 850R is a great car with very respectable sporting credentials. Given that it was some 13 years older and about one eighth the cost of its rivals, it performed more than admirably. You can see why they were raced and why they are modded. Thanks again for your suggestions. Here is something visual to give you more of a feel for the day.



Regards

Arch

[Tungus]

The "No brake in the middle of a curve" rule is 1 I needed to know a couple of months back. Once the rear lets go when you go in too hot, its gone. The car survived but my dignity dint fare too well. Being FWD (850), torque steer is always going to be an issue in 1st gear but as a whole, if driven with common sense the car behaves as it should. The passive rear steering does help but its nothing like a Mitsu VR4.