My Dad's car cuts out when driving. We changed the ignition coil and it worked for 100 miles before the problem came back again. We changed the thermostat aswell.
It has been suggested we replace or clean the fuel filter as it might be clogged but we do not know where it is. Haynes manual is pretty useless.
Can some please show me a picture of description of where we can find the filter please? This problem is driving us nuts. excuse the pun.
Its a 1992 (K reg) 240 estate.
where is the 240 estate fuel filter please?
-
Kmaniac in California USA
- Posts: 301
- Joined: 15 January 2005
- Year and Model:
- Location: Concord, California USA
- Been thanked: 1 time
The following is a responce I posted to another frustrated Volvo owner, who suffered from intermittent engine operation. It will explain to you where to find both of your fuel filters and both of your fuel pumps. I suggest you start in the tank and work your way forward.
Your car has TWO fuel pumps and TWO fuel filters. The first filter that gasoline passes through is the filter sock on the suction end of the in-tank fuel pump, which is in the fuel tank. Fuel then passes through the in-tank pump, then the main fuel pump under the car below the drivers seat. After that, it passes through the main fuel filter, which is next to the main fuel pump.
Now, the main fuel filter (under the car) is routinely changed at service intervals. The function of the main fuel filter is to protect the fuel system components under the hood. The in-tank filter is never looked at and will degrade over time. The function of the in-tank filter is to protect the fuel pumps (both of them) from dirt contamination in the fuel. When (not if) the in-tank filter sock deteriorates, unfiltered fuel will enter both the in-tank pump and main fuel pumps. This first leads to the in-tank pump eventually jamming on the dirt and blowing the in-tank pump fuse, the only indication you will get that the pump has failed. The car will, however, appear to run just fine with a disfunctional in-tank fuel pump. Then the main fuel pump will start to degrade as more unfiltered fuel passes through it. This will cause the pump to inconsistently fail to operate, usually when the car is hot or has been shut off hot. Unfortunately, by the time the main fuel pump eventually fails from dirt intrusion, the owner has either sold or junked the car in frustration from the inconsistent starting.
Now, your probably asking how I know all this. I learned this the hard way when I bought a used Volvo real cheap from someone who was frustrated. It took me three weeks of my own frustration to figure this out on my own. Since I replaced both fuel pumps and in-tank filter sock, my Volvo has run trouble free for over a year.
If you are unsure the condition of your in-tank pump and filter sock, I suggest you pull the sender unit assembly from the tank. This is an easy job for the do-it-yourselfer. Be sure you have less than one-half a tank of fuel. Once you have it out, replace the in-tank pump and filter sock for good measure. You may as well, as long as you have it out. Inspect the condition of the filter sock. If you see any holes in it, then I also suggest you replace the main fuel pump as well, since it is mostly likely dirt contaminated.
One thing I must stress to all Volvo owners is to never replace the main fuel pump without inspecting and/or replacing the in-tank fuel pump and filter sock at the same time. I have read at least one post in this forum about someone who had his main fuel pump replaced three times, at 30-day intervals by an independent (non-Volvo trained) mechanic and couldn't figure out why the new pumps were always defective. The answer: His in-tank filter sock was deteriorated and kept passing dirt to the new main fuel pumps, causing them to fail. I am sure that many a Volvo has been sold or scrapped because of this oversite.
If you read through the posts in this forum, you will see that I harp on this subject quite a bit. I do this because I think this is more common a problem with Volvo's than most people, including experienced Volvo mechanics realize. You see, if the basic parts on the back end of the fuel system don't work right, the complicated parts on the front end won't work well either. And most people assume any fuel problem is under the hood and ignore what is in the fuel tank. In fact, most people and mechanics don't realize there is a second fuel pump and filter in the tank.
Keep us posted with what you find out about your car. I always like to hear about success stories.
Your car has TWO fuel pumps and TWO fuel filters. The first filter that gasoline passes through is the filter sock on the suction end of the in-tank fuel pump, which is in the fuel tank. Fuel then passes through the in-tank pump, then the main fuel pump under the car below the drivers seat. After that, it passes through the main fuel filter, which is next to the main fuel pump.
Now, the main fuel filter (under the car) is routinely changed at service intervals. The function of the main fuel filter is to protect the fuel system components under the hood. The in-tank filter is never looked at and will degrade over time. The function of the in-tank filter is to protect the fuel pumps (both of them) from dirt contamination in the fuel. When (not if) the in-tank filter sock deteriorates, unfiltered fuel will enter both the in-tank pump and main fuel pumps. This first leads to the in-tank pump eventually jamming on the dirt and blowing the in-tank pump fuse, the only indication you will get that the pump has failed. The car will, however, appear to run just fine with a disfunctional in-tank fuel pump. Then the main fuel pump will start to degrade as more unfiltered fuel passes through it. This will cause the pump to inconsistently fail to operate, usually when the car is hot or has been shut off hot. Unfortunately, by the time the main fuel pump eventually fails from dirt intrusion, the owner has either sold or junked the car in frustration from the inconsistent starting.
Now, your probably asking how I know all this. I learned this the hard way when I bought a used Volvo real cheap from someone who was frustrated. It took me three weeks of my own frustration to figure this out on my own. Since I replaced both fuel pumps and in-tank filter sock, my Volvo has run trouble free for over a year.
If you are unsure the condition of your in-tank pump and filter sock, I suggest you pull the sender unit assembly from the tank. This is an easy job for the do-it-yourselfer. Be sure you have less than one-half a tank of fuel. Once you have it out, replace the in-tank pump and filter sock for good measure. You may as well, as long as you have it out. Inspect the condition of the filter sock. If you see any holes in it, then I also suggest you replace the main fuel pump as well, since it is mostly likely dirt contaminated.
One thing I must stress to all Volvo owners is to never replace the main fuel pump without inspecting and/or replacing the in-tank fuel pump and filter sock at the same time. I have read at least one post in this forum about someone who had his main fuel pump replaced three times, at 30-day intervals by an independent (non-Volvo trained) mechanic and couldn't figure out why the new pumps were always defective. The answer: His in-tank filter sock was deteriorated and kept passing dirt to the new main fuel pumps, causing them to fail. I am sure that many a Volvo has been sold or scrapped because of this oversite.
If you read through the posts in this forum, you will see that I harp on this subject quite a bit. I do this because I think this is more common a problem with Volvo's than most people, including experienced Volvo mechanics realize. You see, if the basic parts on the back end of the fuel system don't work right, the complicated parts on the front end won't work well either. And most people assume any fuel problem is under the hood and ignore what is in the fuel tank. In fact, most people and mechanics don't realize there is a second fuel pump and filter in the tank.
Keep us posted with what you find out about your car. I always like to hear about success stories.
Chris the "K MANIAC"
1986 740 GLE
(5) 1964 Chrysler 300-K's
1986 740 GLE
(5) 1964 Chrysler 300-K's
-
becky
Hello Chris,
Thankyou for the lengthy informative reply. One thing that is confusing with these filters is that a) Haynes only mentions one filter, and b) it has two different locations depending on how old your car is.
Yet I am unsure as to whether these locations relate to what you are saying. For earlier models, the filter is on the right hand side under the bonnet in front of passenger seat. The other one for later models is at the back of the car, under the car but above the left wheel - the vehicle needs jacking to access it.
Could this be because this vehicle is a european model and not north american?
Also if I looked up fuel filters on nline stores in the UK and they only mention this one filter here http://www.partsforvolvosonline.com/pro ... ts_id=2645
So naturally I am now very confused.
Thankyou for the lengthy informative reply. One thing that is confusing with these filters is that a) Haynes only mentions one filter, and b) it has two different locations depending on how old your car is.
Yet I am unsure as to whether these locations relate to what you are saying. For earlier models, the filter is on the right hand side under the bonnet in front of passenger seat. The other one for later models is at the back of the car, under the car but above the left wheel - the vehicle needs jacking to access it.
Could this be because this vehicle is a european model and not north american?
Also if I looked up fuel filters on nline stores in the UK and they only mention this one filter here http://www.partsforvolvosonline.com/pro ... ts_id=2645
So naturally I am now very confused.
-
Kmaniac in California USA
- Posts: 301
- Joined: 15 January 2005
- Year and Model:
- Location: Concord, California USA
- Been thanked: 1 time
Hi Becky:
The filter pictured in your parts store link is the Main Fuel Filter. Try looking for a object that looks like that picture in either of the two places mentioned in the Haynes manual. The main fuel filter in my 1986 740 is under the car, below the driver's seat. Now, in America, that means the left side of the car. The main fuel filter is the one that is routinely changed by mechanics during scheduled servicing.
The filter that is typically ignored is the filter in the tank. To inspect and/or remove this filter requires removing the assembly consisting of the fuel gauge sender unit, the fuel pick up tube, in-tank fuel pump and filter sock from the gas tank. Replacement of the in-tank pump requires automatic replacement of this filter. And, if you ever remove this assembly from the fuel tank, common sense dictates replacing the pump and filter sock automatically so to avoid having to remove it again just in case they fail later. Saves a lot of time and trouble.
The stalling while driving condition you descibed indicates either a loss of ignition power or a loss of fuel supply. If you had a timing light or some kind of instrument to measure ignition performance, your Dad could carry it with him as he drives. Then, when the car quits, hook it up immediately to see whether or not the ignition system is working when trying to restart the car. If the test equipment shows the ignition system working, then the problem is in the fuel system. If it shows the ignition system not working, then its in the ignition system.
Intermittent running and stalling can be a very frustrating problem. I discovered this with my 740 just after I bought the car used last year. After three weeks of pulling out my hair, I finally discovered the problem was a deteriorated in-tank filter sock and two damaged fuel pumps. Since I replaced all of these items, the car has worked perfectly. Below are copies of my posts to this forum outlining what happened to me and how I eventually solved my problem. Let me know if you have any other questions or comments.
September 3, 2004
I, too, have a 1986 740 GLE sedan with B230F (no turbo, fuel injection) and automatic transmission. It always starts and runs well when cold, but will randomly fail to start when hot. I have owned the car for two weeks (no wonder I got such a great deal on this) and this has occurred at least six times. A couple of times it restarted after 5 minutes, but once it sat for six hours until the sun went down before starting again. Sometimes when it has its fit, it sounds like is tries to fire, but then just cranks. I am waiting for the next incident to confirm whether it is lack of spark or fuel. Will keep you posted. In the last 4000 miles the car got new spark plugs, wires, cap, rotor and coil, as well as a new in-tank fuel pump and filter sock. The fuel pump relay behind the ashtray works and clicks every time. Any suggestions from others who have experienced the same problem would be appreciated.
September 4, 2004
Well, my Volvo did it again today. At 7:00 AM and 65 F temperature, it started and drove fine as I got my morning coffee. Six hours later, after sitting in the hot California sun on this 90 F day, it failed to start in my driveway. I hooked up my inductive pick-up timing light to the ignition system and got plenty of spark on all four cylinders and the coil. Leads me to think the problem is hiding in the fuel injection system. The car has 203,200 miles on the odometer and everything associated with the fuel injection looks original, except for the fuel filter. Any ideas which parts of the fuel injection system would be affected by the heat of the sun on a hot day?!? At least I know it is not the ignition system. I will keep all posted as I progress through the fuel system.
September 6, 2004
Eureka!! I think I solved the Problem!!!
I drove my Volvo on errands this morning, ending up at the local auto parts store to purchase fuel injection pressure testing equipment. When I went to leave, it wouldn't start. It was a warm California day with the temperatures reaching into the 90's F. I sat with car for two hours trying repeatedly to start it. It would just crank. My timing light indicated strong spark. I got a ride home and returned with my tools in another vehicle. I spent another hour trying to figure out how to hook up the test equipment. Then a guy from the parts store comes out and says that he thinks it is the fuel pump. He then hands me a rock and tells me to tap on the fuel pump a few times. This should knock loose anything that might be hanging up inside the pump. So I take the rock, crawl under the car, and tapped the fuel pump about a dozen times. I get out, get into the car, turn the key and it starts right up! I immediately purchased a new replacement fuel pump, drove the car home and replaced the fuel pump. I am 99% sure that this will cure the problem. I will check back in a couple weeks to let you know how this is going.
October 1, 2004
After four weeks, the car starts first time, every time. No more starting problem. Both new fuel pumps did the trick!
Looking back, it is clear that the original in-tank pump was not working when I bought the car. I found fuse #11 blown a few days after buying the car. I replaced the in-tank pump for good measure. Since I was going into the tank to look at it, it was easier to replace at the same time than to put the old one back in. I discovered the old filter sock had deteriorated and had at least two holes in the sock. I suspect dirt entered the in-tank pump, fouling it and causing the fuse to blow. I further suspect the main fuel pump was fouled with dirt from the broken filter sock, which caused the intermittent starting.
Should you encounter a bad main fuel pump on your car, always inspect and/or replace the in-tank fuel pump, so that you can verify the condition of the filter sock. A bad or deteriorated in-tank filter sock will lead to fouling both fuel pumps with dirt. (Should you go to the trouble of taking out the in-tank pump, you may as well replace it while you got it out.)
November 17, 2004 (Response to a similar complaint)
Reading your story was like de ja vu. I had a similar problem with my 1986 740 GLE, which is documented in the "1986 740 GLE inconsistent starting" post. You can read my experiences there.
I need to point out that your car has two fuel pumps, which work in series. There is a small pump in the gas tank, known as the "in-tank" pump. The other is the main fuel pump, which is mounted together with the fuel filter, in a cradle, bolted to the underside of the car, under the driver's seat. Both pumps receive electric power through the same fuel pump relay, which is found behind the ashtray in the console. Though powered through the same relay, each pump circuit is protected by separate fuses. Also, although both pumps work in series, the operation of both pumps are not required for the car to run. The car will operate normally using the main fuel pump only. However, it will not run with just the in-tank pump only.
If you haven't done so already, check the fuse for the in-tank fuel pump. It is fuse number 11 in my 1986 740. Three days after buying my Volvo last August, I found the in-tank pump fuse blown. No telling how long this had been this way. Out of general principle, I pulled out the in-tank pump. I found the fuel pick up filter sock deteriorated with at least two holes in the sock. I suspect the deteriorated sock allowed debris to enter the pump and jam it, resulting in the blown fuse. Since I had the in-tank pump out, I replaced it and the filter sock.
My suggestion for you is to find and carry with you a rock, which is big enough to fit in your hand. The next time your car refuses to start, reach under your driver door, locate the main fuel pump, and strike the pump a few times with the rock. Then try to restart the car. If it starts right away, then your main fuel pump is the problem and should be replaced.
Please note, too, the main fuel filter is placed down stream of the main fuel pump. If the in-tank filter sock has deteriorated, unfiltered fuel will enter both the in-tank and main fuel pumps before seeing another filter. If you find that the main fuel pump needs replacement, it makes good sense to pull the in-tank pump and inspect the condition of the filter sock. And if you go to the trouble of pulling this pump, you may as well replace it and the filter sock for good measure. A new main fuel pump can be quickly destroyed by unfiltered fuel, if the in-tank fuel filter sock has deteriorated and is not replaced at the time of main fuel pump replacement.
The in-tank pump and filter sock cost me $50. The main fuel pump cost me $125. I put both in myself. Each pump took me about 4 hours of time each to replace, since this was the first time for me for each part. If you do this yourself, disconnect the fuel lines from the tank before removing the main fuel pump, to prevent the fuel from siphoning out of the tank. Work in a well ventilated area, free of ignition sources.
The filter pictured in your parts store link is the Main Fuel Filter. Try looking for a object that looks like that picture in either of the two places mentioned in the Haynes manual. The main fuel filter in my 1986 740 is under the car, below the driver's seat. Now, in America, that means the left side of the car. The main fuel filter is the one that is routinely changed by mechanics during scheduled servicing.
The filter that is typically ignored is the filter in the tank. To inspect and/or remove this filter requires removing the assembly consisting of the fuel gauge sender unit, the fuel pick up tube, in-tank fuel pump and filter sock from the gas tank. Replacement of the in-tank pump requires automatic replacement of this filter. And, if you ever remove this assembly from the fuel tank, common sense dictates replacing the pump and filter sock automatically so to avoid having to remove it again just in case they fail later. Saves a lot of time and trouble.
The stalling while driving condition you descibed indicates either a loss of ignition power or a loss of fuel supply. If you had a timing light or some kind of instrument to measure ignition performance, your Dad could carry it with him as he drives. Then, when the car quits, hook it up immediately to see whether or not the ignition system is working when trying to restart the car. If the test equipment shows the ignition system working, then the problem is in the fuel system. If it shows the ignition system not working, then its in the ignition system.
Intermittent running and stalling can be a very frustrating problem. I discovered this with my 740 just after I bought the car used last year. After three weeks of pulling out my hair, I finally discovered the problem was a deteriorated in-tank filter sock and two damaged fuel pumps. Since I replaced all of these items, the car has worked perfectly. Below are copies of my posts to this forum outlining what happened to me and how I eventually solved my problem. Let me know if you have any other questions or comments.
September 3, 2004
I, too, have a 1986 740 GLE sedan with B230F (no turbo, fuel injection) and automatic transmission. It always starts and runs well when cold, but will randomly fail to start when hot. I have owned the car for two weeks (no wonder I got such a great deal on this) and this has occurred at least six times. A couple of times it restarted after 5 minutes, but once it sat for six hours until the sun went down before starting again. Sometimes when it has its fit, it sounds like is tries to fire, but then just cranks. I am waiting for the next incident to confirm whether it is lack of spark or fuel. Will keep you posted. In the last 4000 miles the car got new spark plugs, wires, cap, rotor and coil, as well as a new in-tank fuel pump and filter sock. The fuel pump relay behind the ashtray works and clicks every time. Any suggestions from others who have experienced the same problem would be appreciated.
September 4, 2004
Well, my Volvo did it again today. At 7:00 AM and 65 F temperature, it started and drove fine as I got my morning coffee. Six hours later, after sitting in the hot California sun on this 90 F day, it failed to start in my driveway. I hooked up my inductive pick-up timing light to the ignition system and got plenty of spark on all four cylinders and the coil. Leads me to think the problem is hiding in the fuel injection system. The car has 203,200 miles on the odometer and everything associated with the fuel injection looks original, except for the fuel filter. Any ideas which parts of the fuel injection system would be affected by the heat of the sun on a hot day?!? At least I know it is not the ignition system. I will keep all posted as I progress through the fuel system.
September 6, 2004
Eureka!! I think I solved the Problem!!!
I drove my Volvo on errands this morning, ending up at the local auto parts store to purchase fuel injection pressure testing equipment. When I went to leave, it wouldn't start. It was a warm California day with the temperatures reaching into the 90's F. I sat with car for two hours trying repeatedly to start it. It would just crank. My timing light indicated strong spark. I got a ride home and returned with my tools in another vehicle. I spent another hour trying to figure out how to hook up the test equipment. Then a guy from the parts store comes out and says that he thinks it is the fuel pump. He then hands me a rock and tells me to tap on the fuel pump a few times. This should knock loose anything that might be hanging up inside the pump. So I take the rock, crawl under the car, and tapped the fuel pump about a dozen times. I get out, get into the car, turn the key and it starts right up! I immediately purchased a new replacement fuel pump, drove the car home and replaced the fuel pump. I am 99% sure that this will cure the problem. I will check back in a couple weeks to let you know how this is going.
October 1, 2004
After four weeks, the car starts first time, every time. No more starting problem. Both new fuel pumps did the trick!
Looking back, it is clear that the original in-tank pump was not working when I bought the car. I found fuse #11 blown a few days after buying the car. I replaced the in-tank pump for good measure. Since I was going into the tank to look at it, it was easier to replace at the same time than to put the old one back in. I discovered the old filter sock had deteriorated and had at least two holes in the sock. I suspect dirt entered the in-tank pump, fouling it and causing the fuse to blow. I further suspect the main fuel pump was fouled with dirt from the broken filter sock, which caused the intermittent starting.
Should you encounter a bad main fuel pump on your car, always inspect and/or replace the in-tank fuel pump, so that you can verify the condition of the filter sock. A bad or deteriorated in-tank filter sock will lead to fouling both fuel pumps with dirt. (Should you go to the trouble of taking out the in-tank pump, you may as well replace it while you got it out.)
November 17, 2004 (Response to a similar complaint)
Reading your story was like de ja vu. I had a similar problem with my 1986 740 GLE, which is documented in the "1986 740 GLE inconsistent starting" post. You can read my experiences there.
I need to point out that your car has two fuel pumps, which work in series. There is a small pump in the gas tank, known as the "in-tank" pump. The other is the main fuel pump, which is mounted together with the fuel filter, in a cradle, bolted to the underside of the car, under the driver's seat. Both pumps receive electric power through the same fuel pump relay, which is found behind the ashtray in the console. Though powered through the same relay, each pump circuit is protected by separate fuses. Also, although both pumps work in series, the operation of both pumps are not required for the car to run. The car will operate normally using the main fuel pump only. However, it will not run with just the in-tank pump only.
If you haven't done so already, check the fuse for the in-tank fuel pump. It is fuse number 11 in my 1986 740. Three days after buying my Volvo last August, I found the in-tank pump fuse blown. No telling how long this had been this way. Out of general principle, I pulled out the in-tank pump. I found the fuel pick up filter sock deteriorated with at least two holes in the sock. I suspect the deteriorated sock allowed debris to enter the pump and jam it, resulting in the blown fuse. Since I had the in-tank pump out, I replaced it and the filter sock.
My suggestion for you is to find and carry with you a rock, which is big enough to fit in your hand. The next time your car refuses to start, reach under your driver door, locate the main fuel pump, and strike the pump a few times with the rock. Then try to restart the car. If it starts right away, then your main fuel pump is the problem and should be replaced.
Please note, too, the main fuel filter is placed down stream of the main fuel pump. If the in-tank filter sock has deteriorated, unfiltered fuel will enter both the in-tank and main fuel pumps before seeing another filter. If you find that the main fuel pump needs replacement, it makes good sense to pull the in-tank pump and inspect the condition of the filter sock. And if you go to the trouble of pulling this pump, you may as well replace it and the filter sock for good measure. A new main fuel pump can be quickly destroyed by unfiltered fuel, if the in-tank fuel filter sock has deteriorated and is not replaced at the time of main fuel pump replacement.
The in-tank pump and filter sock cost me $50. The main fuel pump cost me $125. I put both in myself. Each pump took me about 4 hours of time each to replace, since this was the first time for me for each part. If you do this yourself, disconnect the fuel lines from the tank before removing the main fuel pump, to prevent the fuel from siphoning out of the tank. Work in a well ventilated area, free of ignition sources.
Chris the "K MANIAC"
1986 740 GLE
(5) 1964 Chrysler 300-K's
1986 740 GLE
(5) 1964 Chrysler 300-K's
-
becky
Hi Chris,
Thanks again for your help.
Going to try to find the filter at the weekend. With my Dads working hours its too dark, cold and wet to be climbing under his car in the evenings.
The filter is definitely not at the front of the car under the hood so it has to be in this other place near the rear wheel arch.
If we replace the main filter and theres still a problem - say its the other filter, will this ruin the new filter?
Thanks again for your help.
Going to try to find the filter at the weekend. With my Dads working hours its too dark, cold and wet to be climbing under his car in the evenings.
The filter is definitely not at the front of the car under the hood so it has to be in this other place near the rear wheel arch.
If we replace the main filter and theres still a problem - say its the other filter, will this ruin the new filter?
-
Kmaniac in California USA
- Posts: 301
- Joined: 15 January 2005
- Year and Model:
- Location: Concord, California USA
- Been thanked: 1 time
Hi Becky:
Should you replace the main fuel filter and then find the problem to be something else, you will not damage the new filter.
Now, should you find the problem not solved with the new main fuel filter, I strongly suggest looking at the filter in the tank. This in-tank filter resembles a fine mesh fabric sock. Should you find that this sock has any holes in it, then you MUST replace the filter sock, in-tank fuel pump and main fuel pump at one time, because all three will be damaged.
Anyway, good luck and let us know what you find.
Should you replace the main fuel filter and then find the problem to be something else, you will not damage the new filter.
Now, should you find the problem not solved with the new main fuel filter, I strongly suggest looking at the filter in the tank. This in-tank filter resembles a fine mesh fabric sock. Should you find that this sock has any holes in it, then you MUST replace the filter sock, in-tank fuel pump and main fuel pump at one time, because all three will be damaged.
Anyway, good luck and let us know what you find.
Chris the "K MANIAC"
1986 740 GLE
(5) 1964 Chrysler 300-K's
1986 740 GLE
(5) 1964 Chrysler 300-K's
-
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