I have a 1986 240 DL that i was told has vapor lock or a failing fuel pump. Like other postings here, The car will run fine for 30 minutes but dies at a red light and won't restart until at least a 15 minute wait. Also it's hard to start and idles roughly,especially in hot weather. Agreed, I should be blessed to get 315,000 miles on it this far. Want to fix problem with little investment. Is this a pipe dream?vapor lock or bad fuel pump
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86volvo
vapor lock or bad fuel pump
I have a 1986 240 DL that i was told has vapor lock or a failing fuel pump. Like other postings here, The car will run fine for 30 minutes but dies at a red light and won't restart until at least a 15 minute wait. Also it's hard to start and idles roughly,especially in hot weather. Agreed, I should be blessed to get 315,000 miles on it this far. Want to fix problem with little investment. Is this a pipe dream?-
Kmaniac in California USA
- Posts: 301
- Joined: 15 January 2005
- Year and Model:
- Location: Concord, California USA
- Been thanked: 1 time
Sounds like you may have fuel pump and filter problems. Please be aware that your car has TWO fuel pumps and TWO fuel filters. Listed below are listing of my various posts on this subject. Please read carefully. You may be suffering from the same problems as I did last year. Any questions, just reply to this post. Also, let us know what you find out.
Things will cost a lot less if you are a do-it-yourselfer. Here are my posts:
September 3, 2004
I, too, have a 1986 740 GLE sedan with B230F (no turbo, fuel injection) and automatic transmission. It always starts and runs well when cold, but will randomly fail to start when hot. I have owned the car for two weeks (no wonder I got such a great deal on this) and this has occurred at least six times. A couple of times it restarted after 5 minutes, but once it sat for six hours until the sun went down before starting again. Sometimes when it has its fit, it sounds like is tries to fire, but then just cranks. I am waiting for the next incident to confirm whether it is lack of spark or fuel. Will keep you posted. In the last 4000 miles the car got new spark plugs, wires, cap, rotor and coil, as well as a new in-tank fuel pump and filter sock. The fuel pump relay behind the ashtray works and clicks every time. Any suggestions from others who have experienced the same problem would be appreciated.
September 4, 2004
Well, my Volvo did it again today. At 7:00 AM and 65 F temperature, it started and drove fine as I got my morning coffee. Six hours later, after sitting in the hot California sun on this 90 F day, it failed to start in my driveway. I hooked up my inductive pick-up timing light to the ignition system and got plenty of spark on all four cylinders and the coil. Leads me to think the problem is hiding in the fuel injection system. The car has 203,200 miles on the odometer and everything associated with the fuel injection looks original, except for the fuel filter. Any ideas which parts of the fuel injection system would be affected by the heat of the sun on a hot day?!? At least I know it is not the ignition system. I will keep all posted as I progress through the fuel system.
September 6, 2004
Eureka!! I think I solved the Problem!!!
I drove my Volvo on errands this morning, ending up at the local auto parts store to purchase fuel injection pressure testing equipment. When I went to leave, it wouldn't start. It was a warm California day with the temperatures reaching into the 90's F. I sat with car for two hours trying repeatedly to start it. It would just crank. My timing light indicated strong spark. I got a ride home and returned with my tools in another vehicle. I spent another hour trying to figure out how to hook up the test equipment. Then a guy from the parts store comes out and says that he thinks it is the fuel pump. He then hands me a rock and tells me to tap on the fuel pump a few times. This should knock loose anything that might be hanging up inside the pump. So I take the rock, crawl under the car, and tapped the fuel pump about a dozen times. I get out, get into the car, turn the key and it starts right up! I immediately purchased a new replacement fuel pump, drove the car home and replaced the fuel pump. I am 99% sure that this will cure the problem. I will check back in a couple weeks to let you know how this is going.
October 1, 2004
After four weeks, the car starts first time, every time. No more starting problem. Both new fuel pumps did the trick!
Looking back, it is clear that the original in-tank pump was not working when I bought the car. I found fuse #11 blown a few days after buying the car. I replaced the in-tank pump for good measure. Since I was going into the tank to look at it, it was easier to replace at the same time than to put the old one back in. I discovered the old filter sock had deteriorated and had at least two holes in the sock. I suspect dirt entered the in-tank pump, fouling it and causing the fuse to blow. I further suspect the main fuel pump was fouled with dirt from the broken filter sock, which caused the intermittent starting.
Should you encounter a bad main fuel pump on your car, always inspect and/or replace the in-tank fuel pump, so that you can verify the condition of the filter sock. A bad or deteriorated in-tank filter sock will lead to fouling both fuel pumps with dirt. (Should you go to the trouble of taking out the in-tank pump, you may as well replace it while you got it out.)
November 17, 2004 (Response to a similar complaint)
Reading your story was like de ja vu. I had a similar problem with my 1986 740 GLE, which is documented in the "1986 740 GLE inconsistent starting" post. You can read my experiences there.
I need to point out that your car has two fuel pumps, which work in series. There is a small pump in the gas tank, known as the "in-tank" pump. The other is the main fuel pump, which is mounted together with the fuel filter, in a cradle, bolted to the underside of the car, under the driver's seat. Both pumps receive electric power through the same fuel pump relay, which is found behind the ashtray in the console. Though powered through the same relay, each pump circuit is protected by separate fuses. Also, although both pumps work in series, the operation of both pumps are not required for the car to run. The car will operate normally using the main fuel pump only. However, it will not run with just the in-tank pump only.
If you haven't done so already, check the fuse for the in-tank fuel pump. It is fuse number 11 in my 1986 740. Three days after buying my Volvo last August, I found the in-tank pump fuse blown. No telling how long this had been this way. Out of general principle, I pulled out the in-tank pump. I found the fuel pick up filter sock deteriorated with at least two holes in the sock. I suspect the deteriorated sock allowed debris to enter the pump and jam it, resulting in the blown fuse. Since I had the in-tank pump out, I replaced it and the filter sock.
My suggestion for you is to find and carry with you a rock, which is big enough to fit in your hand. The next time your car refuses to start, reach under your driver door, locate the main fuel pump, and strike the pump a few times with the rock. Then try to restart the car. If it starts right away, then your main fuel pump is the problem and should be replaced.
Please note, too, the main fuel filter is placed down stream of the main fuel pump. If the in-tank filter sock has deteriorated, unfiltered fuel will enter both the in-tank and main fuel pumps before seeing another filter. If you find that the main fuel pump needs replacement, it makes good sense to pull the in-tank pump and inspect the condition of the filter sock. And if you go to the trouble of pulling this pump, you may as well replace it and the filter sock for good measure. A new main fuel pump can be quickly destroyed by unfiltered fuel, if the in-tank fuel filter sock has deteriorated and is not replaced at the time of main fuel pump replacement.
The in-tank pump and filter sock cost me $50. The main fuel pump cost me $125. I put both in myself. Each pump took me about 4 hours of time each to replace, since this was the first time for me for each part. If you do this yourself, disconnect the fuel lines from the tank before removing the main fuel pump, to prevent the fuel from siphoning out of the tank. Work in a well ventilated area, free of ignition sources.
Things will cost a lot less if you are a do-it-yourselfer. Here are my posts:
September 3, 2004
I, too, have a 1986 740 GLE sedan with B230F (no turbo, fuel injection) and automatic transmission. It always starts and runs well when cold, but will randomly fail to start when hot. I have owned the car for two weeks (no wonder I got such a great deal on this) and this has occurred at least six times. A couple of times it restarted after 5 minutes, but once it sat for six hours until the sun went down before starting again. Sometimes when it has its fit, it sounds like is tries to fire, but then just cranks. I am waiting for the next incident to confirm whether it is lack of spark or fuel. Will keep you posted. In the last 4000 miles the car got new spark plugs, wires, cap, rotor and coil, as well as a new in-tank fuel pump and filter sock. The fuel pump relay behind the ashtray works and clicks every time. Any suggestions from others who have experienced the same problem would be appreciated.
September 4, 2004
Well, my Volvo did it again today. At 7:00 AM and 65 F temperature, it started and drove fine as I got my morning coffee. Six hours later, after sitting in the hot California sun on this 90 F day, it failed to start in my driveway. I hooked up my inductive pick-up timing light to the ignition system and got plenty of spark on all four cylinders and the coil. Leads me to think the problem is hiding in the fuel injection system. The car has 203,200 miles on the odometer and everything associated with the fuel injection looks original, except for the fuel filter. Any ideas which parts of the fuel injection system would be affected by the heat of the sun on a hot day?!? At least I know it is not the ignition system. I will keep all posted as I progress through the fuel system.
September 6, 2004
Eureka!! I think I solved the Problem!!!
I drove my Volvo on errands this morning, ending up at the local auto parts store to purchase fuel injection pressure testing equipment. When I went to leave, it wouldn't start. It was a warm California day with the temperatures reaching into the 90's F. I sat with car for two hours trying repeatedly to start it. It would just crank. My timing light indicated strong spark. I got a ride home and returned with my tools in another vehicle. I spent another hour trying to figure out how to hook up the test equipment. Then a guy from the parts store comes out and says that he thinks it is the fuel pump. He then hands me a rock and tells me to tap on the fuel pump a few times. This should knock loose anything that might be hanging up inside the pump. So I take the rock, crawl under the car, and tapped the fuel pump about a dozen times. I get out, get into the car, turn the key and it starts right up! I immediately purchased a new replacement fuel pump, drove the car home and replaced the fuel pump. I am 99% sure that this will cure the problem. I will check back in a couple weeks to let you know how this is going.
October 1, 2004
After four weeks, the car starts first time, every time. No more starting problem. Both new fuel pumps did the trick!
Looking back, it is clear that the original in-tank pump was not working when I bought the car. I found fuse #11 blown a few days after buying the car. I replaced the in-tank pump for good measure. Since I was going into the tank to look at it, it was easier to replace at the same time than to put the old one back in. I discovered the old filter sock had deteriorated and had at least two holes in the sock. I suspect dirt entered the in-tank pump, fouling it and causing the fuse to blow. I further suspect the main fuel pump was fouled with dirt from the broken filter sock, which caused the intermittent starting.
Should you encounter a bad main fuel pump on your car, always inspect and/or replace the in-tank fuel pump, so that you can verify the condition of the filter sock. A bad or deteriorated in-tank filter sock will lead to fouling both fuel pumps with dirt. (Should you go to the trouble of taking out the in-tank pump, you may as well replace it while you got it out.)
November 17, 2004 (Response to a similar complaint)
Reading your story was like de ja vu. I had a similar problem with my 1986 740 GLE, which is documented in the "1986 740 GLE inconsistent starting" post. You can read my experiences there.
I need to point out that your car has two fuel pumps, which work in series. There is a small pump in the gas tank, known as the "in-tank" pump. The other is the main fuel pump, which is mounted together with the fuel filter, in a cradle, bolted to the underside of the car, under the driver's seat. Both pumps receive electric power through the same fuel pump relay, which is found behind the ashtray in the console. Though powered through the same relay, each pump circuit is protected by separate fuses. Also, although both pumps work in series, the operation of both pumps are not required for the car to run. The car will operate normally using the main fuel pump only. However, it will not run with just the in-tank pump only.
If you haven't done so already, check the fuse for the in-tank fuel pump. It is fuse number 11 in my 1986 740. Three days after buying my Volvo last August, I found the in-tank pump fuse blown. No telling how long this had been this way. Out of general principle, I pulled out the in-tank pump. I found the fuel pick up filter sock deteriorated with at least two holes in the sock. I suspect the deteriorated sock allowed debris to enter the pump and jam it, resulting in the blown fuse. Since I had the in-tank pump out, I replaced it and the filter sock.
My suggestion for you is to find and carry with you a rock, which is big enough to fit in your hand. The next time your car refuses to start, reach under your driver door, locate the main fuel pump, and strike the pump a few times with the rock. Then try to restart the car. If it starts right away, then your main fuel pump is the problem and should be replaced.
Please note, too, the main fuel filter is placed down stream of the main fuel pump. If the in-tank filter sock has deteriorated, unfiltered fuel will enter both the in-tank and main fuel pumps before seeing another filter. If you find that the main fuel pump needs replacement, it makes good sense to pull the in-tank pump and inspect the condition of the filter sock. And if you go to the trouble of pulling this pump, you may as well replace it and the filter sock for good measure. A new main fuel pump can be quickly destroyed by unfiltered fuel, if the in-tank fuel filter sock has deteriorated and is not replaced at the time of main fuel pump replacement.
The in-tank pump and filter sock cost me $50. The main fuel pump cost me $125. I put both in myself. Each pump took me about 4 hours of time each to replace, since this was the first time for me for each part. If you do this yourself, disconnect the fuel lines from the tank before removing the main fuel pump, to prevent the fuel from siphoning out of the tank. Work in a well ventilated area, free of ignition sources.
Chris the "K MANIAC"
1986 740 GLE
(5) 1964 Chrysler 300-K's
1986 740 GLE
(5) 1964 Chrysler 300-K's
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cgreygoose
- Posts: 112
- Joined: 29 January 2011
- Year and Model: 99 V70, 90 240DL
- Location: USA
Hello fellow Volvo owners. I just bought a very nice 88 240 DL wagon 5 speed. it's got at least 198K as the odometer does not currently work. The maintanence records show that during the last year the mileage was working fine so I don't think it's all that much past 200K.
My question is this, it starts up perfect, idles perfect, drives perfect until for some reason it will stall out on me and take 5-10 to start up again. The first time it happened was when i went to drive it home after purchasing it. I checked all the connections, cleaned them up, especially the the wires going to battery and coil. After that it started up great and I thought the problem was fixed. well it just stalled out on me last night starting off from a red light. 5 mins later, again I wiggled the coil connections, and it started up again and got me home no problem. Drove it today with no issues. It's not hot here, in fact it's chilly and raining now. Not hot last night either when it stalled out.The previous owner said something about a vapor lock. Please explain what that means and does my experience sound like that? I don't have time to mess around on my own so I really need direction from someone as this car will be driven by my wife and kids with her. Thank you.
jason
My question is this, it starts up perfect, idles perfect, drives perfect until for some reason it will stall out on me and take 5-10 to start up again. The first time it happened was when i went to drive it home after purchasing it. I checked all the connections, cleaned them up, especially the the wires going to battery and coil. After that it started up great and I thought the problem was fixed. well it just stalled out on me last night starting off from a red light. 5 mins later, again I wiggled the coil connections, and it started up again and got me home no problem. Drove it today with no issues. It's not hot here, in fact it's chilly and raining now. Not hot last night either when it stalled out.The previous owner said something about a vapor lock. Please explain what that means and does my experience sound like that? I don't have time to mess around on my own so I really need direction from someone as this car will be driven by my wife and kids with her. Thank you.
jason
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billofdurham
- MVS Moderator
- Posts: 6507
- Joined: 2 February 2006
- Year and Model: 855, 1995
- Location: Durham, England
- Been thanked: 5 times
Vapour lock is a problem that mostly affects petrol (gasoline) fuelled internal combustion engines. It occurs when the liquid fuel changes from liquid to gas (that is not the same as gasoline) while still in the fuel delivery system. The operation of the fuel pump is disrupted, causing loss of feed pressure to the fuel injection system, resulting in a transient loss of power or complete stalling. Restarting the engine from this state may be difficult. The fuel can vaporize due to being heated by the engine, by the local climate or due to a lower boiling point at high altitude. I don't think this can apply to you.
If you can get the engine running by wiggling the coil connections I would be looking at the wiring to the coil as a starting place. As you have just bought the car it wouldn't hurt to check the rest of the ignition system for bad connections, damaged wiring etc.
Bill.
If you can get the engine running by wiggling the coil connections I would be looking at the wiring to the coil as a starting place. As you have just bought the car it wouldn't hurt to check the rest of the ignition system for bad connections, damaged wiring etc.
Bill.
Work was good - retirement is better.
1996 850GLT 2.5 20v Estate Manual.
1995 Peugeot Boxer 2.5Tdi Autosleeper.
Previously:
1984 244DL, Manual, Beige.
1987 744GLE, Manual, Green.
1991 960 3.0 24v, Auto, Silver.
1994 940T Wentworth, Auto, Blue.
1996 850GLT 2.5 20v Estate Manual.
1995 Peugeot Boxer 2.5Tdi Autosleeper.
Previously:
1984 244DL, Manual, Beige.
1987 744GLE, Manual, Green.
1991 960 3.0 24v, Auto, Silver.
1994 940T Wentworth, Auto, Blue.
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cgreygoose
- Posts: 112
- Joined: 29 January 2011
- Year and Model: 99 V70, 90 240DL
- Location: USA
well, it died on me tonight and no matter what i did it would not start. infact I had to bum a ride home and now the car is sitting in the parking lot. same symptoms. this time wiggling the wires did nothing for me. obviously I need to do a once over to see what issues are happening but I was sooo not wanting to spend anther day working on a car. spent 9 hours pulling radiator from wife's 99v70 to then learn that I bought the wrong radiator but none of my local auto stores carry the correct one. They all have the same model number that is supposed to match the car. now we have two dead volvo's and we are having to borrow neighbors car. this is not a happy volvo owner tonight. more time and money will be spent. one of my neighbors seems to think it's fuel related too so we will have to pull out the haynes manual. bye the way, where do I find the OBD on this 88? My 89 240 had it on the drivers side wheel fender under the hood but I can't find one on this model? Bizarre that I can't seem to locate it. Does it not have one?
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billofdurham
- MVS Moderator
- Posts: 6507
- Joined: 2 February 2006
- Year and Model: 855, 1995
- Location: Durham, England
- Been thanked: 5 times
OBD was first fitted on the 240, 740, 760, 780, 940 and 960 cars from 1989, non-turbo engines only and 1990 to 1995 for both turbo and non-turbo engines. This information relates to US cars only as we in the UK were deemed incapable of using such sophisticated equipment until much later. The exception to this was the 740 with the 2.0 litre or 2.3 litre 16 valve engine. See the pinned article at the top of this forum for more on the OBD.
The quickest way to check for fuel reaching the engine is to crank it then remove one of the spark plugs to see if it is wet.
Bill.
The quickest way to check for fuel reaching the engine is to crank it then remove one of the spark plugs to see if it is wet.
Bill.
Work was good - retirement is better.
1996 850GLT 2.5 20v Estate Manual.
1995 Peugeot Boxer 2.5Tdi Autosleeper.
Previously:
1984 244DL, Manual, Beige.
1987 744GLE, Manual, Green.
1991 960 3.0 24v, Auto, Silver.
1994 940T Wentworth, Auto, Blue.
1996 850GLT 2.5 20v Estate Manual.
1995 Peugeot Boxer 2.5Tdi Autosleeper.
Previously:
1984 244DL, Manual, Beige.
1987 744GLE, Manual, Green.
1991 960 3.0 24v, Auto, Silver.
1994 940T Wentworth, Auto, Blue.
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cgreygoose
- Posts: 112
- Joined: 29 January 2011
- Year and Model: 99 V70, 90 240DL
- Location: USA
well the car sat for a week as I had to fly out of town the following morning and it started right today with no problems. it's been running well all day today and even cleaned out the fuel system with Seafoam both in the gas tank and through the intake. it runs a bit better which it should after all that smoke. kept turning it on and off to see if I could duplicate the problem with no luck. my luck will be while I'm on the road on my way to work and it will die on me. I redid some of the electrical connections that were looking pretty old and loose and I"m hoping that this will help but in case I do stall out I will spray some carb jump start fluid in and if it starts up then I know i've got fuel issues if still won't start then I need to go thru the ignition system and figure out why it stalls. I will post back once I know anything or experience anything. bummer on the OBD but at least I'm glad that i'm not losing my eyesight when trying to look for it the other day. This 240 is a 5 speed too, I wonder how many of them they made. i do love it though with the exception to a few of the creature comforts that I don't have in this car. anyhoo, thanks for your insights.
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cgreygoose
- Posts: 112
- Joined: 29 January 2011
- Year and Model: 99 V70, 90 240DL
- Location: USA
after a couple days of near perfect driving the volvo died on me not once but three times in one day. Once while doing 75mph on expressway, once at stop light and the other while driving under 25mph. The fuel tank is just over half a tank, the wires have all been cleaned or replaced and are nice and tight.
I did however spray starter fluid into the intake and it started right up and drove great. the next time I just let it sat for a few mins. and it started up equally fine. I'm going to get a new fuel pump relay and then replace the fuel filter. I do have one question though and that is this, once I turn the key on the on position before I start the car should I be hearing the fuel pump inside the gas tank? IF so that might be my problem as I don't hear a single sound except when the car is running and I think that's the external fuel pump that I hear that's under the car. Is it a big job to pull the fuel pump out of the gas tank? If not, I may get that too this weekend as I'm tired of stalling out. thanks for your feedback.
I did however spray starter fluid into the intake and it started right up and drove great. the next time I just let it sat for a few mins. and it started up equally fine. I'm going to get a new fuel pump relay and then replace the fuel filter. I do have one question though and that is this, once I turn the key on the on position before I start the car should I be hearing the fuel pump inside the gas tank? IF so that might be my problem as I don't hear a single sound except when the car is running and I think that's the external fuel pump that I hear that's under the car. Is it a big job to pull the fuel pump out of the gas tank? If not, I may get that too this weekend as I'm tired of stalling out. thanks for your feedback.
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lummert
- Posts: 1381
- Joined: 29 January 2008
- Year and Model: 760 1988
- Location: Portland Indiana, USA
- Been thanked: 26 times
What were the outside temps. Before I swapped out the intank pump I would have stalling problems in very hot outside temps and the fuel tank level only down by 5 gallons.
1988 Volvo 760 Turbo Wagon
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