'01 v70 base, limp home, no codes, terrible rumble at start

rickie · Post by **rickie** » 23 Feb 2013, 16:45

107,000 mi, 2nd owner
O2 sensor at 92,000 (front)
TB, serp and water pump, plus Xemodex ETM at 100,000ish
Struts at 105,000
B4 servo at 107,000
MAF this week at 107,000 +

History over past 1.5 yrs - after O2 sensor it started surging at stop. The shop said it had nothing to do w/ O2 replacement. Just before ETM totally failed it would have this terrible rumble in the engine, then go into what I assume is the limp home mode altho no MIL's showed up... just no response from accelerator or from tranny, would not go over 5mph. Code showed ETM - Xemodex solved issues.

Started having shifting issues between 35-40mph so bought the B4 -. Followed IPD's directions on adapting after B4 install. Idle seemed rough and felt hesitant w/ loss of power - OBDII code P1620 which according to one manual @ carpartseuro, could include the MAF so went ahead w/ that replacement after reading experiences here. Other options for P1620 were wiring, MAP, TO regulating valve (what is that?) ETS, and ECM.

The car is acting like it did when the ETM failed - the engine rumbling at start feels like a rhinoceros is trying to get out. Calms down after a minute or so. Went 10 mi to store - no issues, smooth shifting even getting on freeway. On way home it started hesitating - felt more tranny/electrical than mechanical. Drove over rough pothole patch and then it really went crazy and no power/no shift... fluctuated off and on like that.... made it another mile and then the rhinoceros came back with his brothers and I had to pull over. Crazy rumble but no shifting past first or 2nd and no fluctuation in rpm either. No response if I manually shifted to L, 2, 3, or 4..... but if I let my foot off the accelerator just a bit it would shift and I could go 12mph.

No idiot messages at all.... until I did the "glove on the oil input" test - now it has "emissions system service required" and "check engine". Did the OBD and it still says P1620 manufacturer specific powertrain code and an 0507 Idle Air Control ...

I think the pothole anomaly was that the ETM connector clip had come undone and it slid right apart when I picked it up. Sometimes in the past when driving over bumps/potholes it seemed the tranny would free wheel - like the car had to think about what it was going to do next... an absent minded professor moment....

I have had it to a transmission shop and of course they think it needs a new one for upwards of $5000.... I'm not yet convinced. Any input would be greatly appreciated as a deficient professor mucking about with rhinoceroses is bound to end badly.

thanks - rhp

Post by **precopster** » 23 Feb 2013, 18:52

At this age I'm surprised you haven't replaced the brake pedal position sensor. Depending on what you're using to read the codes this may or may not come up on the scan. There's a great write-up which I used to repair mine on my XC70 '01 with success here http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthrea ... 192&page=5 but be sure to release all vacuum by pressing brake pedal repeatedly before removing.
The reason I bring up the pedal sensor is if you have old ETM firmware there is a safety cutout for the throttle if the brake pedal is depressed. So a faulty position sensor can cause havoc with the throttle.

Have you replaced the engine management relay yet? I think it's FMA2 position though it's stated on the cover. Part number is 9441158. You could swap it with another relay from the rear area or just next to it.

Getting these cars diagnosed with generic readers is leading you to a parts swapping session that may never end. Vida/Dice is available on eBay or Autel EU-702 and both will do the job much better. If you can scan this way post up your scan pic or codes.

Change fluid...change fluid....change fluid. The AW55-50SN trans requires fresh clean JWS3309 rated fluid and the best way to do this is by drain and fill. Vida/Dice allows you to reset the fluid counter when you do so.

My 2000 V70 NA has the same 'box as yours and I had all your problems....they are all but gone unless it's a very hot day in traffic. I used Nulon synthetic multi vehicle fluid rated to Toyota IV standard, changed the old bent B4 cover and did drive cycle as well as fluid counter reset and the box seems better the longer I own it. Mind you it took almost 2 months to totally adapt and I believe the sythetic fluid has freed up the solenoids.

rickie · Post by **rickie** » 23 Feb 2013, 20:37

Thanks for answering so quickly! I will start doing some further research on what you've mentioned.... I'm the female/brains

in the house and have always done all the research/diagnosing for my male/brawn counterpart -

There has been something with the brake pedal but I'm not sure it's significant .... thousands of miles ago it started having a strange sound - when sitting at stop w/ foot on brake and rested my hand on the shifter, there would be this rat a tat tat like clicking and I could feel it vibrating. It is still doing it. Brawny says it's nothing so I defer to him until it proves him wrong

Are you saying my new ETM may not have the cutout for the throttle? I thought all of Xemodex's were old - you either wait longer for your same one to come back to you or they flash your info onto another used one. And this position sensor is the sensor that is attached to the brake booster, correct?

We did do the ATF - Toyota IV - not the drain and fill but the manual flush with IPD's kit - just before doing the B4 servo. What came out was dark but not frighteningly so.... oddly, after driving it for several weeks the dip stick is now showing way too much ATF. Took out over a cup and it seemed to go down a bit - that was measuring while cold. Will idle it tomorrow and measure while hot.

I think I made a mistake with this car in that there were 3 of us using it - putting on over 17,000 mi in 16 months. Maybe too many different styles for the brain box to deal with?

I will look at the engine mgmt and position sensor manana - we debated getting a good diagnostic tool since Mr Brawny does most all the work but I keep debating whether we're going to keep it long term like we did the '77 and '90. I love the 22mpg/city that the v70 is giving me -- better than that if I have to push it across town - and it is comfortable and quiet, not to mention lower taxes, ins, registration etc.... but I need something I can rely on...

Thanks again - I'll get on this while the weather is warm...

rickie · Post by **rickie** » 24 Feb 2013, 19:17

I don't think it's the FMA2 - you can hear it clicking with the stethoscope when key is turned.

Unplugged battery for awhile and cleared messages.... there was no rough idle this morning at all but only drove it in driveway - tomorrow I will take off the pedal position sensor.

Stop neutral is still engaged in this car - wouldn't it have been flashed at some point in it's routine maintenance and that would have gone away? Or is it possible that an indie shop doesn't pay for the latest updates and still has old software when they reset things?

rickie · Post by **rickie** » 25 Feb 2013, 14:48

Pedal sensor is just over 4v when tested w/ wires going between connector and sensor - zero when sensor itself was tested. That was with engine at idle. There is just slight wiggle in the end of the sensor - did not perform surgery.

Whatever the issue is it seems to only begin happening after it gets hot - about 10 to 15 mi.

Checked the DTC sets (pushing read & fog light) but only CEM had one set altho the ABS, TCM, ECM, PDM, PSM, REM and UEM never got out of "checking". Who knows if that was left in there from some other time?

rickie · Post by **rickie** » 26 Feb 2013, 19:39

had codes read at indie - for free

- and it shows ETM. He is a distributor/dealer for Xemodex so I expect they will take his word for it. I am just greatly disappointed that it hasn't lasted a year. ETM was making continuous whining noise. I'm wondering how long everyone has made it with their Xemodex ETM? Maybe brand new from Volvo would have been better way to go in the end?

Post by **precopster** » 27 Feb 2013, 05:47

Just got a new (rebuilt) Volvo throttle body from FCP today for a customer. Lo and behold it has a new contactless sensor in the exact shape as a Sacer sensor with a Volvo logo on it;
These have new boards on them and require initialising by a dealer. Seems a very good investment in my opinion for $459. Once this gets out FCP will be getting orders by the bucketload. Only issue is that the car requires either a dealer or an indie with an Autologic scanner or Autoland Vedis II or iScanII to start it up.

The photo above is what a film type (Magnetti Marelli) endcap looks like. Below are the new Volvo and Sacer endcaps.

rickie · Post by **rickie** » 27 Feb 2013, 23:17

That's interesting - I wonder how much a SW reload would run at the dealer? The two local indies here will not deal w/ SW - Volvo just made it too expensive and difficult for them.

Talked with Xemodex today and they are sending ETM to me post-haste. Excellent customer service. But Tony there is as stumped as we are - he has almost zero returns on these. When we took the fuse out - #7 on this car - and put it back in there was no response from the ETM at all. Yet it makes a whining noise when the car is started/running. He said those two symptoms should be incompatible.

No one I've talked to can think of anything that could make the ETM die off like that, assuming with Xemodex's great reputation that it isn't the ETM itself.

also, per Tony, he said the FMA2 relay is not an issue w/ 2001 and onward - '99 or '00, yes, but not on this one.

yellow-bat · Post by **yellow-bat** » 11 Mar 2013, 15:48

I have similar symptoms, but I get a PO121 Code; Throttle/pedal Position sensor/switch"A" circuit range/performance problem.
I got a Sacer TPS sensor cap after limping home, and installed it very carefully. Erased the codes, started up, same result, limp mode, 2K rpm max, PO121. Are there tests to see if the ETM is working while still in limp mode? Are there any tests for checking viability of ETM after removal from engine? I'm stalled as to my next step. Can I test my Sacer install, it looks really good to me.

Post by **precopster** » 11 Mar 2013, 20:27

Did you voltage match the rear sensor to the front sensor by slightly rotating the magnet? Voltage is taken on pins 1 & 3 of the new sensor and pins 2 & 4 of the old sensor's contacts.

Did you properly disconnect the old Magnetti Marelli sensor on pin 2 & replace the rear sensor's output?

Does the rear (old sensor which is still attached?) even have voltage?

Rig up a test system using green (+) and brown (-) for power to the unit and test outputs.