'96 850 estate turbo fcr wont read ecu

[CamZH]

I've just bought one of these (waiting for it to arrive, should be today) and hoping to see some success on my '96 850.
I've had no luck with other readers, so I'll keep you posted.

[Reys]

good luck mate

[esl_97_850_T5]

I have done a lot of testing with an ELM327 talking to a 1997 Volvo 850 T5, researched many different things which can be read from the COMBI (Instrument Panel), SRS, ABS, AW 50-42 (Auto Transmission), and Power Seats, and have documented it at:

http://jonesrh.info/volvo850/elm327_rea ... leage.html
http://jonesrh.info/volvo850/elm327_volvo_850_scan.html

and the pages that feed from them.

Maybe you'll find something useful there when you start playing with your ELM327 device. You might even figure out some way to merge it with the Torque app.

[Reys]

Esl_97_850_T5 is your 850 running on motronic 4.4?

I have another question/idea that hopefully someone can shed some light on. I already have the obd2/serial port cable & a laptop. Volvo FCR doesn't read my ecu, but will another program work with a hardwired connection running a software similar to torque & have greater response times? Anybody try this?

Funny an actual volvo program can't read my engine but random bluetooth elm327s & phone apps can...

[esl_97_850_T5]

Reys,

1. My 850 is running with a Motronic 4.3 (not 4.4).

My Motronic 4.3 ECU has the same number (as best I can read your blurry photo) as yours: Bosch 0261 203 072. According to my research that equates to: 166 KW Volvo B 5234 T Turbo, which is what my owner manual lists on p9:3. So I'm guessing we have similar engines. That number when strung together as 0261203072 seems to be the ECU's Hardware #, according to rkam's VolvoDiag, Dilemma's MotronicSuite, and various tuning forums.

2. Vol-FCR is not supplied by Volvo. It was created by a 3rd party to do a few of the things that the Volvo Scan Tool (VST) can do.

3. A variety of different OBDII programs can talk to your Motronic 4.3. But they are only talking to the Motronic 4.3 through the OBDII pin 7 which feeds to the Motronic 4.3 pin B36. That's what the bluetooth elm327s and phone apps that you mention are doing. On the Motronic 4.3, that OBDII communication through pin 7 is done at 10400 baud (after the initial 5 baud Slow Init is performed). rkam's http://forum.ecuproject.com/showthread. ... munication thread summarizes this as:

"M4.3 at 0x33: Key Bytes 0x08 0x08 pin B36 OBDII ISO9141-2 10400bps"

The OBDII capable program that worked best for me is a free version of EasyObdII v2.4.0 which came with my ELM327 clone cable (or which I downloaded at the time). You can see most of the available OBDII data (and maybe even all of it -- I've never checked to be sure). It provides some temporary live data capability which goes away after some number of minutes. You can just run it again to see the live data again. Or you can pay a small fee to get the live data facility permanently. I've never used Torque, so I don't know what it does.

The only problem that I've encountered with EasyObdII is that the ATPP parameter relating to Headers being enabled needs to be left in its default state equivalent to ATH0, else EasyObdII will not connect.

4. There are at least 3 other ways to talk to the Motronic 4.3, but none of them can be used with an ELM327:

a. Flash code reader via OBDII port 3.
b. "M4.3 at 0x10: Key Bytes 0xAB 0x02 pin B5 old type 12500bps used by VST"
c. Bootmode via OBDII port 3 (used for ECU flashing)

4a. Concerning the flash code reader, sometimes you can see more DTCs using the flash code reader approach (via OBDII pin 3). But I've generally found it sufficient and much more convenient to just use general purpose OBDII software (via OBDII pin 7) to retrieve the Motronic 4.3 DTCs. It's certainly much quicker to use the OBDII software.

4b. One way to retrieve more live data from the Motronic 4.3 (rather than the limited set available with the OBDII emission diagnostics protocol) is via what rkam calls:

"M4.3 at 0x10: Key Bytes 0xAB 0x02 pin B5 old type 12500bps used by VST"

It uses an older protocol -- KWP71 -- than the ISO9141-2 like "keyword D3 B0" protocol that the Motronic 4.4 can use and which the Volvo 850's COMBI (Instrument Panel), SRS, ABS, AW 50-42 (Auto Transmission), and Power Seats use. That older KWP71 protocol that the M4.3 uses is not compatible with an ELM327 because it involves echoing of every single byte instead of the block oriented exchanges that occur in a ISO9141-2 style protocol. You have to use a VAG/COM KKL style cable [probably either USB or serial would work] to communicate with the Motronic 4.3 via KWP71.

The best info I found on the net for how this KWP71 protocol is used by the Motronic 4.3 is rkam's "Diagnose and communication" thread begun on 2009-05-19:

http://forum.ecuproject.com/showthread. ... munication

To see examples of the older Motronic 4.3 KWP71 protocol being used to retrieve live data, search that thread for "Motronic 4.3 Live data".

There might be some source code which demonstrates some KWP71 protocol communication to a Motronic 4.3 in rkam's research and debugging tool, volvodiag, which can be downloaded from a link in this post:

http://forum.ecuproject.com/showthread. ... #post75350

Also, the MotronicSuite has a live data feature in it. So you might be able to use MotronicSuite to see more Motronic 4.3 live data compared to what is available with the standard OBDII software. mercuric probably has knowledge about that, since he has some recent posts over on ecuproject.com and volvospeed.com relating to MotronicSuite and TunerPro.

4c. The bootmode via OBDII port 3 is referred to by rkam as:

"M4.3 bootmode pin B5 9600bps"

My understanding is that this is how flashing of the ECU is done. You might try ecuproject.com, volvospeed.com, swedespeed.com, etc for more info on this.

5. I presume that most OBDII programs can access the basic emission diagnostic data that I know of:

PID 03 = Fuel System Status
PID 04 = Calculated LOAD Value
PID 05 = Engine Coolant Temperature
PID 06 = Short Term Fuel Trim - Bank 1
PID 07 = Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 1
PID 0C = Engine RPM
PID 0D = Vehicle Speed
PID 0E = Ignition Timing Advance for Cyl #1
PID 10 = Mass Air Flow (MAF)
PID 11 = Absolute Throttle Position
PID 12 = Secondary Air Status [if your car has it]
PID 13 = Location of Oxygen Sensors (O2SLOC)
PID 14 = Oxygen Sensor: Bank 1 Sensor 1 (O2S11).

as well as, of course, the DTCs and pending DTCs. There might be some other PIDs that are accessible to users of models with more features. For example, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the other PIDs in the 1C - 5A are used.

But if you want to see more Motronic 4.3 engine info, you're likely going to have to go with a VAG/COM KKL style cable.

6. I'll be curious to know if EasyObdII doesn't give you what you want. If not, what is it missing?

7. I don't clearly understand what you mean by "will another program work with a hardwired connection". Is the hardwired connection your ELM327 cable? Is the hardwired connection an OBDII cable which has OBDII pin 3 and pin 7 either tied together or switchable with a 2-to-1 switch, or, better yet, an 8-pole DIP switch that can switch between OBDII pin 7 and pins 3, 6, 13 (as well as the OBDII pins 1, 9, 12 used on some other Volvo models)? Or what?

8. You can always plunk down $150 or so and get one of those Autel MaxiScan 700 series handhelds that does the OBDII, as well as ABS, SRS, etc. Matty Moo and others find them quite useful. I was hoping that the info I had published on my Volvo 850 OBDII portal would be incorporated into such a product so that the COMBI, Transmission, and Power Seat info could also be read by it.

esl_97_850_T5

[Reys]

That is a heap of info esl_97_850_T5, I'm confused though.. you are saying elm327 wont read 4.3 but you yourself are using an elm327 clone cable and easyobd2v2.4.0? I was going to try this but haven't found a way to transfer the program onto my ancient laptop. I was planning to get another laptop that also supports a serial port & try easyobd2v2.4.0, should this get the job done?

[esl_97_850_T5]

Reys,

1. My ELM327 clone definitely talks to the Motronic 4.3 for the purpose of retrieving the basic OBDII PIDs that I mentioned in item 5 of my previous post -- mode 1 PIDs 01-14, DTCs, and pending DTCs. The way that it does this was mentioned in the first paragraph of item 3 of that post -- namely OBDII pin 7 to Motronic 4.3 pin B36 at 10400 baud using standard ISO9141-2 OBDII communications.

EasyObdII, any OBDII capable program, and you (if you're manually issuing commands through a terminal emulator) talk with the ELM327 with a combination of its AT commands and the OBDII requests encoded as hex strings. The ELM327 adds the proper OBDII headers and checksum automatically when it send the requests, eg, 0100, 0101, 0105, 03, 07, etc.

2. One of the first things you'll have to do is make sure you have the proper driver for the serial interface hardware that your ELM327 clone uses, be it CP210x, FTDI, etc. Normally, your vendor will provide you with instructions on how to do this. I created a page to show what I did to get my ELM327 working:

http://jonesrh.info/volvo850/elm327_setup_on_winxp.html

My ELM327 clone is a USB device, not an old DB9 (or whatever they are) serial port. My operating system is WinXP. If your ELM327 device is an ELM327 clone USB cable that uses the CP210x drivers and if you're operating system is WinXP, then you should be able to follow my Setup instructions as is with very few changes. If you have an ELM327 device with a DB9 plug or a Bluetooth interface, then you're on your own. My elm327_setup_on_winxp.html page may or may not be helpful for those cases.

3. My EasyObdII Free v2.4.0 definitely talks to the Motronic 4.3.

The version of EasyObdii Free which I use was downloaded from easyobdii.com. I think it's filename was "EasyObdII 2.4.0 Setup.exe". Its feature set is:

Auto Com Port with Scantool Recognition and Configuration
Com Ports 1 to 25 with Configuration Display [I think later versions of EasyObdii don't go that high.]
Windows 2000 SP4 to Windows 7 Compatibility
Elmscan 5 and OBD-Link Support up to 115200 Baud
Touchscreen Compatible
Datalogging with Saving to Text and Csv Files - LIMITED TRIAL
CAN Data Support
Vehicle Dashboard - Revs , Speed , Load ,Throttle , Battery - LIMITED TRIAL
Pending Diagnostic Trouble Codes
Monitoring test
Live Sensor Data
Freeze Frame
Enhanced Error Detection
Reads and resets vehicle trouble codes and MIL (Check Engine) Lamp
Show text descriptions of generic Powertrain (P) and Network (U) codes
Manufacturer specific and other generic codes will be displayed without text description

4. The answer to "should this get the job done" is probably: Yes. But you really need to give a bit more info. For example...

What kind of ELM327 device do you have? USB, DB9, bluetooth? What is your ancient laptop configuration? What is your "another laptop" configuration? What kind of serial ports do the laptops have? What operating system is running on the laptops? Does the OS meet the Win 2000 SP4, WinXP, ..., or Win7 requirement? Do you have a way to get any downloaded drivers on either of the laptops? ...

5. As per item 4b in my previous post, the ELM327 can NOT talk to the Motronic 4.3 using the KWP71 protocol via OBDII pin 3 to Motronic 4.3 pin B5 at 12500 baud. So any extra info available from the Motronic 4.3 via KWP71 will not be accessible to you via the ELM327. You would have to use a VAG/COM KKL cable (modified to communicate via OBDII port 3 instead of OBDII port 7) with appropriate software: MotronicsSuite, TunerPro, VolvoDiag, etc. to access the info available via KWP71. Or you would have to convert your car to use a Motronic 4.4, which uses the "keyword D3 B0" protocol and can be communicated to with an ELM327. Or you might experiment with logging available with some tuner-developed hybrid ECU.

6. The ELM327 CAN do the basic OBDII communication with the Motronic 4.3, since it knows how to communicate with standard ISO9141-2 protocol. But the ELM327 can NOT understand the Motronic 4.3's KWP71 protocol, so that's off limits with an ELM327.

Fortunately, the "keyword D3 B0" protocol used by the COMBI, SRS, ABS, AW 50-42 Transmission, and Power Seats is sufficiently similar to the standard ISO9141-2 protocol that the ELM327 can ALSO be made to communicate with COMBI, SRS, ABS, Tranny, and Power Seats. The Vol-FCR program understands much of it (though not the Vehicle Mileage stored in the instrument cluster). The Volvo Scan Tool presumably understands all of it. The Autel MS700 series handhelds understand at least part of it, since they can read/clear DTCs for SRS and ABS. My downloadable, locally run volvo850diag page understands it. But, EasyObdII does not understand the keyword D3 B0 protocol. Once you get EasyObdII going, then you can decide if you want to try talking with the COMBI, SRS, ABS, etc. using your ELM327 cable.

esl_97_850_T5

[CamZH]

Wow,
thats such a great amount of info.

For the record, my ELM327 Bluetooth unit arrived yesterday (over a week when being posted inside the same city??)
I didnt have any joy using Torque on my 850, but had some success with my S60.

I'll have to look into EasyOBD

[Reys]

So I've been playing around with this torque app and elm327...not bad for the $, it does do what I need, question regarding boost readings. my stock dash gauge reads 2/3 into white bar on wot and 10psi on my aftermarket gauge. for some reason torque shows readings in the range of 20+psi !?!? insane difference, I know to take this torque info with a little grain of salt but has anyone else experienced this? any ideas to what might be giving these readings? the car isn't over boosting in my opinion/holds boost and climbs with no fuel cutoff. I am running a mbc but to my knowledge its been set at 10psi since being installed and tested with my working dial gauges.