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Part 2: PNP Removal

Help, Advice and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's extremely popular car line -- Volvo's 1990s "bread and butter" cars -- powered by the ubiquitous and durable Volvo inline 5-cylinder engine.

1992 - 1997 850, 850 R, 850 T5-R, 850 T5, 850 GLT
1997 - 2000 S70, S70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70, V70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70-XC
1997 - 2004 C70

cn90
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Re: Part 2: PNP Removal

Post by cn90 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:09 am

BKM,

As you mention, for most of us, 99.99999% of the time we don't need this feature (starting in Neutral).

As you mentioned, there are those rare occasions that you want to start in Neutral.

I have found a way to start in Neutral, in my case if I push the lever a tiny tiny bit forward (don't go into R!), it will start.


2004 V70 2.5T 100K+
2005 XC90 2.5T 110K+

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MoVolvos
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Re: Part 2: PNP Removal

Post by MoVolvos » Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:13 am

erikv11 wrote:Hmmmmm I don't think I would put sandpaper to those tracks, unless I found a whole bunch of corrosion or something... As you point out, too much removal and you're done.
Looking at the tracks there is barely any metal above the plastic so extreme caution is needed. I made a few passes almost without any pressure till the metal was shiny. I felt I had to go that route as the grease was clean so I thought there may have been some kind of contamination or oxidation causing the surfaces not to make contact resulting in the No Crank in Neutral.

There are a few tracks that are very short. Not sure if they are related to the Neutral? In Electronics we were taught to use a pencil eraser to clean electrical contacts but I did not want to remove or clean off too much of the existing grease nor continually gum up the eraser. You really have to use caution with the sand paper and in my case I think that really helped to clean things up.

Blessings,

BKM

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-

Blessings,

BKM

1998 S70 T5 - Donated
2003 S80 T6
2003 GS300
2003 Odyssey
2008 C30 T5
2019 Atlas SE 4 Motion

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Re: Part 2: PNP Removal

Post by MoVolvos » Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:32 am

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cn90 wrote:BKM,

As you mention, for most of us, 99.99999% of the time we don't need this feature (starting in Neutral).

As you mentioned, there are those rare occasions that you want to start in Neutral.

I have found a way to start in Neutral, in my case if I push the lever a tiny tiny bit forward (don't go into R!), it will start.
I found starting in Neutral by moving the Shift Lever a smidgen while turning the key a little awkward so didn't care for it. Every car on the road is built with a Neutral Start so that is one item that could be potentially a life saving feature and a liability if it was not available. The Neutral Start I believe is a little bigger in the overall scheme of thing and it is probably what you get when you put the Auto Manufacturer's Corporate Lawyers in the same room with the Design Engineers.

Blessings,

BKM

-


-

Blessings,

BKM

1998 S70 T5 - Donated
2003 S80 T6
2003 GS300
2003 Odyssey
2008 C30 T5
2019 Atlas SE 4 Motion

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Re: Part 2: PNP Removal

Post by polskamafia mjl » Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:41 pm

I agree, the neutral start is a rarely used but extremely important feature to have. If the car stalls at high speed I want to be able to shift into neutral and re-start the car w/o having to worry about adjusting the shifter just right to get it started.

In that kind of emergency it is important to get power back as soon as possible. No power steering or power brakes could end very badly very quickly.

The airbags are also almost never used (hopefully) but you still want them to work when called on. I think the same logic applies here.


'All my money is gone and I have an old Volvo.' - Bamse's Turbo Underpants

Current: 1995 Volvo 850 T-5R Manual - Bringing it back from the brink of death
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Re: Part 2: PNP Removal

Post by MoVolvos » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:44 am

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polskamafia mjl wrote:I agree, the neutral start is a rarely used but extremely important feature to have. If the car stalls at high speed I want to be able to shift into neutral and re-start the car w/o having to worry about adjusting the shifter just right to get it started.

In that kind of emergency it is important to get power back as soon as possible. No power steering or power brakes could end very badly very quickly.

The airbags are also almost never used (hopefully) but you still want them to work when called on. I think the same logic applies here.
_

Neutral Switch for while you are still in control.
Airbag when you lost all control.
Park is no control or same thing as lost control.

Blessings,

BKM

_


-

Blessings,

BKM

1998 S70 T5 - Donated
2003 S80 T6
2003 GS300
2003 Odyssey
2008 C30 T5
2019 Atlas SE 4 Motion

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Re: Part 2: PNP Removal

Post by precopster » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:47 pm

When my a/c compressor seized with a big groan I was able to keep the car rolling with traffic behind me while I switched off the the a/c function then restarted the vehicle.

Sure I could have hit the hazard switch and come to a stop in order to restart but in that moment of panic it was nice to keep rolling and be able to start the engine.


Current cars:2002 XC70, 2006 Ssangyong Rodius (Stavic), 2006 XC90 2.5T, VW Transporter 2.5TDI

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Re: Part 2: PNP Removal

Post by erikv11 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:46 pm

Here's another good reason to keep the PNP working the way it is supposed to: my kids drive all of my cars and I want the vehicles to work properly and predictably for them. Or I might loan a car to a neighbor or friend ... etc etc etc.

It's sort of like saying "why fix a broken emergency flasher switch when you can just flick the turn signal lever really quickly if you ever need hazard lights?" :D


'95 854 T5-R, Motronic 4.4, 185k
'96 855 NA, 140k
'98 S70 NA, 210k (living out west)
'98 V70, T5 tune-injectors-turbo, LPT engine, 280k
'06 S60 R, 160k
gone: '96 NA 850 210k, '98 NA V70 182k

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Re: Part 2: PNP Removal

Post by VolvoCab » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:36 pm

I did not have back up lights and my inspection is up the end of this month. So my son and I took things apart and cleaned up the PNP switch. However, when we put things pack together I put the battery terminals on the incorrectly and got a lot of smoke from the engine area. Seemed to come from the alternator area. I corrected my mistake and tried to start the car but there is nothing at all. What did I do? How badly did I mess things up? Help!!!



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Re: Part 2: PNP Removal

Post by cn90 » Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:49 am

VolvoCab wrote:I did not have back up lights and my inspection is up the end of this month. So my son and I took things apart and cleaned up the PNP switch. However, when we put things pack together I put the battery terminals on the incorrectly and got a lot of smoke from the engine area. Seemed to come from the alternator area. I corrected my mistake and tried to start the car but there is nothing at all. What did I do? How badly did I mess things up? Help!!!
Check all fuses, relays in the fuse box near the driver side suspension tower area.
I posted a whole bunch of photos in forum.


2004 V70 2.5T 100K+
2005 XC90 2.5T 110K+

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Re: Part 2: PNP Removal

Post by erikv11 » Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:38 am

VolvoCab wrote:... when we put things pack together I put the battery terminals on the incorrectly and got a lot of smoke from the engine area. Seemed to come from the alternator area. I corrected my mistake and tried to start the car but there is nothing at all. What did I do? How badly did I mess things up? Help!!!
I have dealt with this on an 850 before, the first thing to do is swap out the three J relays under the fuse box cover. If you are lucky, that is the only problem. The relays will be expensive if you buy them new but super cheap and totally reliable from the junk yard.

If that doesn't do it, the starter wire and the alternator are next on the list.

Please start a new thread to follow up the discussion, this topic is about the PNP switch.


'95 854 T5-R, Motronic 4.4, 185k
'96 855 NA, 140k
'98 S70 NA, 210k (living out west)
'98 V70, T5 tune-injectors-turbo, LPT engine, 280k
'06 S60 R, 160k
gone: '96 NA 850 210k, '98 NA V70 182k

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