1999 V70XC I'm stuck - I need ideas. Topic is solved

[Ozark Lee]

Tolstoy Warning

The saga of the new XC continues and I've managed to get myself tied in a knot. I don't know which way to go to get the car to reliably start since I have a bunch of conflicting diagnostic tests. I suppose this is, more or less, directed to Mike but I need the collective genius of the board to get through this.

I bought the car cheap ($1300 Cash) knowing that the fuel pump was bad. The car is otherwise on very good shape with only 125k on the clock. My other 1999 XC met an untimely demise due to a drunk driver and is now a parts car, parked behind my mother's barn, but a couple of weeks before the other XC got totaled I put a new fuel pump in it. I just pulled the recently replaced fuel pump from the parts car and installed it in the new car.

After the fuel pump was changed the car started and ran fine but I had the flashing ECC lights so I fired up VOL-FCR to see what the ECC was mad about. VOL-FCR couldn't really deal with the car from the menu so I just told the program it was a '98 rather than a '99. VOL-FCR couldn't read anything and I tried to probe nearly all of the systems with it. After that episode the car didn't want to start but that was really only the third or fourth time I had even tried to start it since replacing the fuel pump. It could be significant or it could be a coincidence - I don't know. After a few attempts (it could be 2 or it could be 30) the car will start and at times it will exhibit a start and promptly die condition that would be typical of a bad antenna ring. After it starts, if there were several attempts, it will sputter a bit until it cleans up the excess fuel from the failed starting attempts. The car has yet to set a P code for anything and it never set a P1670.

I replaced the antenna ring with a brand new blue box part but things didn't change. I also replaced the electrical portion of the ignition switch with a known good from the parts car.

Without any good means to test the systems I bought a DICE unit and scanned the systems. Initially I had a IMM321 which cleared and the car started but it failed to start reliably afterwards. DICE shows no errors beyond a climate control unit error complaining about the cabin temp sensor fan

I tried swapping the ECU and the immobilizer from the parts car, into the new car thinking that I could use the parts car key taped to the antenna ring and let the antenna dangle below the steering column away from the key that would actually work in the ignition switch. That was fruitless and I have since studied up on how Volvo implements the CAN bus and how the systems truly are married in the software loading process as each subsystem is given a unique identifier and that identifier is not uniform from car to car.

After that attempt I decided to simply change the identity of the car. I removed all of the software driven modules from the parts car and put them into the new car. The instrument cluster, the immobilizer module, SRS module, the ABS module, the ECU, the TCU, the alarm module, and the climate control. The power seat modules don't show up on DICE at all so I didn't change them. That didn't even begin to work and I don't know why. Again I used the parts car key taped to the antenna ring and let the antenna ring dangle below the column. I also wrapped the new car key in foil. Amongst the numerous errors that showed up was an error that the antenna ring wasn't there and that the key wasn't recognized. After that fruitless exercise I put all of the new car modules back and I have no errors except the climate unit error.

From here I went back old school and started to look at inputs.

Fuel pressure is good and it holds. It is actually a bit high at 50 PSI but I really don't trust my gauge since it is a cheap, $30.00, Actron.

I put an oscilloscope on the cam position sensor and it shows a good signal but I swapped it anyway. The replacement also shows a good signal on the scope.

I pulled the number one spark plug to check for spark and the car up and started. It actually started pretty reliably. I thought perhaps that indicated that there was a wiring problem in the harness to the coil packs. Most of the wire loom was rotted off but I pulled what was left off and visually checked the harness and could find no problems. I replaced the wire looms and cleaned things up. The battery voltage at the coils good and the trigger signal is there on the oscilloscope when the car starts and runs but it isn't there when the car won't start. Just for grins I swapped the number one coil and no change.

The alarm module seems to be messed up as the alarm will never trigger. If I lock all of the doors, with the window down, the alarm will arm and the LED on the dash will flash but the alarm never sounds nor do the hazard lights flash if I reach into the car and open the door from the inside. The hazard light routine won't trigger with a command through the VGLA module from DICE but the horn will sound when triggered through DICE. The car came to me with only one key and no remote keyfob.

DICE says all systems go in either condition (starting or not starting). I have specifically focused DICE on the immobilizer and I get affirmative responses when I monitor conditions with DICE. The key is recognized as key number 4 and the ECM and IMM have a positive result to the question and answer.

Now to my dilema, I don't know if this is a wiring problem, a ECM/ECU physical module problem, or a software problem. I think I have pretty well eliminated the wiring problem aspect in that the battery voltage is always present at all of the coils with the key in position II and the trigger signal is there on all of the coils when the car starts but it is not there on any of the coils when the car will not start. Other than the battery voltage there isn't any common wire that goes to all of the coils and all of the coil trigger wires shorting out simultaneously, with no physical indication of damage, is pretty far fetched.

My depth of knowledge pool is pretty shallow with the ME7 setup. The old XC never gave me a bit of trouble after I replaced the bad engine other than the fuel pump croaking. As such, I don't know what problems fall into the typical category.

I am considering getting the ECM/ECU cloned. I have a call into ARD to find out what cost is involved but my fear is that if I have a software problem it will be transfered to the cloned module and I will have the same result with a different physical module. I find that there are many software and cable packages available like Galleto and ECM Titanium that can re-flash the ECU but I can't find a straight answer when it comes to the immobilizer codes, whether they get transferred or not. If there is a package that works that is in the under $100.00 range like most of them I would be willing to give that a try.

I am considering buying a three day subscription to VIDA so that I can buy software downloads but I would hate to buy the subscription only to find that I have bad hardware and have my three days run out before I can get the hardware dealt with. I would like to buy a couple of more keys and at least one remote so I could program them during the subscription period but it isn't absolutely necessary. If this type of problem is typically cured with a fresh software download it would make sense to go the subscription route, reload the software and program the keys and the remote. I would just need to have the keys cut and the remote in hand, along with their code numbers, at the time I started the subscription.

In an ideal world I would just do all of the above, and I may need to do that anyway but the new car purchase was completely unbudgeted. The drunk that wrecked the old XC was uninsured and is devoid of assets as far as I can tell. I could sue but all it would do is cost me attorney fees and I would wind up with a judgment against someone who doesn't have any money to satisfy the judgment anyway.

Lastly there is the ultimate indignity of driving it to the dealership where I'm sure they can fix it - for more money than the car is worth. My local independent shop says they can't (or won't) deal with Volvo software.

What would you do?

...Lee

[Atis]

Sad story...
I would go for checking the alarm system, as that is the "confirmed" non operational sub system. I do not know whether it is connected somehow to the immobilizer, but if yes, than it could cause no start issues.
The other main evidence, where you can continue is the lack of trigger signal in case of no start. I would check the injectors as well with scope, just to be sure, what is happening.

If you would like to be really systematic, open an excel sheet and write lists - what has been changed and what not before/after the failure; -what is happening and what not (e.g. there is fuel; no spark; no alarm). You can throw it in a matrix and see the interactions as well. This usually helps me to find root causes, although I have never used that technique for car diagnostics.

I hope that the VOL-FCR did not messed up anything in the SW.
I wish you a huge amount of luck but first of all steel nerves!

[phils94850]

i agree.. i think your problem is in the security system..

[timmybdaddyof3]

I am not positive about the 99+ cars, but on 98- the security system knocks out the starter not fi or ignition.
this is going to sound totally stupid, but in light of how much effort you have put into getting the "new" car running, how bad was the damage to the old car?

[abscate]

Lee...I can't offer much help since this is way out of my expertise but on reading through have you actually tried this with the antenna ring installed in its proper position and not just hanging.

I'm away from my wheels but I recall a warning in the 1999 owners manual that another Volvo key nearby will inhibit the security system...this points to this being quite a sensitive system to position.

[timmybdaddyof3]

the antenna rings can be picky, but if you isolated it the way you described it should have been fine.

Just for the sake of asking, when you are testing the alarm, how long are you waiting between hitting the lock button on the remote and opening the door....If memory serves there is a programmable delay from 10 seconds to 5 min.

When you say it does not start reliably are you saying it is a crank and no start condition, or a turn the key and nothing happens condition?

[taxi]

+1 on alarm delay! After the "pause" of 10 seconds to five minutes, a click is heard and now you can't open anything from the inside.
So, to see if your alarm works, wait until it's actually engaged and then open it with a key in the door lock.
This probably won't fix your main problem, so good luck with that!

[mikealder]

1/ Clean the contacts of the cars connector that plugs in to the immobiliser aerial/ ring as these are known to blacken as they corrode and go high resistance, a poor connection means little signal gets through to the car.

2/ What state are the aux earth/ ground straps that run from the engine firewall/ bulkhead to the top of the engine, there should be at least two braided straps connecting the engine back to the cars bodywork - Poor earth return can knock out the ignition coils when the load of the starter is cranking the engine.

3/ One key in the ignition switch with the aerial correctly mounted, try and get the car back to a known "as built" config/baseline.

4/ Ignition coil pack ground connections, there are two grounding connections in the top of the cam cover with black wires for the VVT return and coil pack returns, are these all in good order.

5/ Alarm, the deadlocks should engage 30 seconds after locking the doors with the remote, once the deadlocks fire in (you can hear them if you listen to it) you cannot open the doors from inside, at this point try waving your had in to the car through an open window near the top of the B pillar to see if anything triggers - It should do. If the alarm is still playing up take the wheel arch liner out on the passenger side front wheel arch, the alarm module is hidden in here, inside the alarm unit is a battery that often fails and leaks electrolyte all over the PCB and can damage it - replacement batteries a\re available online for little cost if you find the PCB is in decent order.

Best of luck with this fault but go for the satisfaction of DIY fix as you will learn more about the car, ME7 isn't too difficult to work on the other plus point to the DIY fix is cost, a main dealer could charge you a bloody fortune for a fault such as this - Mike

[Ozark Lee]

Great stuff all.

The battery cable had the end chopped off and a cheap auto parts store connector added to it so I changed the battery cable with one from the parts car. That was its own special nightmare and I ran out of daylight yesterday getting that done. I knew it wasn't going to change the situation but it needed to be done anyway.

The car is back to all of the modules that came with it. The grounds from the cam cover to the firewall are both good as is the negative battery terminal to the block and the secondary ground from the battery to the chassis. For some reason an additional ground was spliced into the ECU harness where it goes to pin A-54. That pin should be at ground anyway and it and pin A-53, which ties to the same ground point (31/71), both show a solid ground with 0.0 ohms to the block.

The alarm does in fact work. I was unaware of the delay so I locked the door and gave it about 10 minutes and when I opened the door through the window the horn sounded.

Things do get stranger though. I did some more tracing with the oscilloscope and I find that the injectors always pulse, whether the car starts or not. I'm not sure if the immobilizer is supposed to kill the ignition or the injectors or both. The injector pulses always seem to be there. The trigger signals to the coils, it turns out, are there sometimes even when there is a no start condition. They are, of course, always there when the car does start but there seems to be no rhyme or reason as to why they are there sometimes and the car won't start and without them there the car, as expected, won't start. The battery voltage is always steady on the red wires to the coils and the coil grounds are clean and tight on the cam cover.

I have some screen grabs of the VIDA diagnostics as they apply to the IMM, the VLGA, and some information from the ECM.

Main information screen

Initial state screen

IMM Details

Immobilizer and alarm functions.

ECM Injection and ignition timing.

The injection and ignition timing screen was snagged while the car was cranking but not starting.

I noticed one other odd thing that was not consistent. After some time (as in 20 or 30 minutes) with the door open the relays on the VGLA modules start to click and the dome lights cycle from off to bright through a dimming cycle. This happens (both the relays and the light) at about 1.5 second intervals.

The antenna ring is brand new, the connections look clean on both the antenna ring end and on the IMM module end, and I gave both ends a shot with CRC contact cleaner. On several occasions though the car does act exactly like it has a bad antenna ring in that it will fire and immediately die.

The car always cranks, at least until I manage to run the battery down and then I put it back on the charger overnight.

Once again, it seems when I pull a spark plug and lay it on the head with the coil, and it doesn't seem to matter which one, the car will start pretty reliably. I did find some solder globs around coil number 2 but I think it was some sloppiness from splicing the wires to the CVVT valve which looks like it was recently changed. Recent is somewhat relative as I think this car had been parked for over a year at the repair shop where I bought it.

I have changed both the number 1 and 2 coils with known good replacements. The spark is orangish rather than blue with the spark plug laying on the cam cover.

I never could hear the deadlocks engage after the door was closed and locked.

As far as the signal and relay states and signal states go I don't know if some of them should be opened or closed, low or high. They don't seem to change between the starting and not starting conditions.

If anyone sees something on the screen grabs that stands out please let me know.

...Lee

[precopster]

Lee you only have one key to test with and I think this would be a good starting point. The key chips have been known to intermittently fail on occasion.

The power leading to the injectors has a green constant wire (12V+) which I recently tapped into to power up an ETM that lost +12V. What astonished me on this '99 Denso car is that power to injectors sticks around for about 5 minutes after key is removed, then gets cut by the ECM. This coincides with when I plug an ETM into a car that has been sitting overnight it doesn't fire however if I plug an ETM into a car that has had the ignition cycled to PosII recently (last 5 minutes) the ETM will turn on even if the key is removed. So.....the cycling of the injectors may be normal as they are low current devices and within 5 minutes the +12V is cut anyway.

I did some documentation on the key chip type used on my 2000 V70 so I'll try to dig that up. I believe it was a Philips chip. There are so many sources of key programming equpment out there however in my research a couple of years back I failed to find feedback on whether they program these specific chip types. A mobile key cutter identified my key chip and tried to duplicate it however he said something about a identifier (sounds familiar hey?)

In your case a new key may be all you need.