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1994 850 NA Wobble from a start and at speed

Help, Advice and DIY Tutorials on Volvo's P80 platform cars -- Volvo's 1990s "bread and butter" cars -- powered by the ubiquitous and durable Volvo inline 5-cylinder engine.

1992 - 1997 850, including 850 R, 850 T-5R, 850 T-5, 850 GLT
1997 - 2000 S70, S70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70, V70 AWD
1997 - 2000 V70-XC
1997 - 2004 C70

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soulvoid1990
Posts: 35
Joined: 20 August 2013
Year and Model: 2007 S60 2.5T
Location: PA, US

1994 850 NA Wobble from a start and at speed

Post by soulvoid1990 »

Hello all,

So a little mechanical background to my car. 240K miles, autobox, 90% of the suspension has been rebuilt, and has less than 2000 miles on it, and was with replaced with OEM spec parts from either rockauto, fcp or ipd. To be exact, up front I did the complete strut assembly, including springs, mounts, bump stop, etc; sway bar links; inner and out tie rod ends; both cv axles; control arms, with bushing and ball joint; rotors and pads. Sway bar bushings look ok, and isn't tearing. I do have replacements, I just haven't put them on yet. Both CV axles are replaced, however, the boot for the inner joint on the passenger side ripped about 200 miles ago.. So I have to find out what kind of warranty it has. The only other thing that hasn't been replaced is the wheel bearings, and I'm not sure when they were done last.

The rear I did both springs and struts, with all the matching hardware, as well as the larger out control arm bushings. (not looking forward to doing those again on the turbo.. :roll: ) Inner bushings are ok, and the car rides very smooth over bumps. No ride problems on either end of the car.

Also just replaced the timing belt, with the pump and pulleys, s-belt, oil sump o-rings, pcv system, and did a tune up about 7k miles ago on the full ignition system. The upper motor mount does need replaced. It's not horrible, but it's cracked all around.

This has been one heck of a over haul on this car. It drove horribly before I replaced all of this, but the car drives very good now. I still however, have a wobble when I accelerate from a stop, doesn't matter if I'm turning or going straight. The harder I accelerate, the worse the wobble is, and starts to become a vibration at some points. This was a lot worse before I went through and replaced everything mentioned above. And by wobble, I mean it feels like a bent rim, the front end of the car gets thrown side to side very slightly. I haven't had an "official" alignment done yet, but we did have it on a lift, and used the string method (hope you guys know what I'm talking about). It drives straight as an arrow down the highway with no hands on the wheel. But at highway speeds, from about 45 and up, it feels like a vibration, like a slightly worn tie rod end would. Also, depending on how you go over it, bumps cause a very slight rattle. It doesn't do that all the time though.

One other thing worth mentioning, the steering rack is in decent condition, however, when we were changing the inner tie rods, we noticed play. I wasn't 100% sure if this is normal. So the shaft doesn't have play going in and out of the rack, or as if you were steering left or right. It has play going towards the front and rear of the car, when your loosening or tightening the tie rods.

I also have a problem with my subframe. I hit a brick.. yes a brick, last winter. It was covered by snow, with the passengers side tire, just the front. No immediate damage other than a flat tire, which I was able to get home quick before it went flat. I did replace the tire, it ripped pretty good, along with the rim. So when this happened, the left mount for the passengers side control arm got pushed up about 3/4". I tried to bend it back, but we couldn't get enough leverage. We almost pulled the car off the lift :mrgreen:

And just an easy shot in the dark, possibly the wheel bearing? It didn't wobble like this until just about 3 months ago, so I don't think it's anything related to the subframe mount.

Sorry for the horrible long post, just wanted to make sure everything was covered.

Regards,
Sage
2007 S60 2.5T AWD - Daily, Stock
1994 850 T5 (175k miles) - 5 Speed Swap, Angled Exhaust Housing, 3" Downpipe, 2.5" custom exhaust, Intake, ARD Stage 2 Tune, Various Bolt-ons.
1994 850 N/A Autobox (240k miles) - Completely Stock, Daily - Sold :(

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soulvoid1990
Posts: 35
Joined: 20 August 2013
Year and Model: 2007 S60 2.5T
Location: PA, US

Post by soulvoid1990 »

Also, it seems to be both sides of the front, however, the passengers side seems to be the worst. It was pretty bad today, but got better on the highway. Then as I was getting back into town, and closer to work, it got worse again. I'm definitely thinking it's the wheel bearings. They could be the originals for all I know :D

Sage
2007 S60 2.5T AWD - Daily, Stock
1994 850 T5 (175k miles) - 5 Speed Swap, Angled Exhaust Housing, 3" Downpipe, 2.5" custom exhaust, Intake, ARD Stage 2 Tune, Various Bolt-ons.
1994 850 N/A Autobox (240k miles) - Completely Stock, Daily - Sold :(

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oragex
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Post by oragex »

One thing that comes to mind are axles (refurbished?) and engine mounts..

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soulvoid1990
Posts: 35
Joined: 20 August 2013
Year and Model: 2007 S60 2.5T
Location: PA, US

Post by soulvoid1990 »

The axles aren't refurbished, and it seems to be coming from both sides of the car. The upper motor mount could use replaced, and I'm not sure about the one on the lower passengers side of the subframe. It looks ok and doesn't have too much play.

More info on the steering rack. It doesn't bind anywhere, either at speed to sitting still. No weird sounds from the power steering pump and the fluid level is good. I don't know when it was changed last, but it looks very good, and I've never had to top it off in the 6 years I've had it.
2007 S60 2.5T AWD - Daily, Stock
1994 850 T5 (175k miles) - 5 Speed Swap, Angled Exhaust Housing, 3" Downpipe, 2.5" custom exhaust, Intake, ARD Stage 2 Tune, Various Bolt-ons.
1994 850 N/A Autobox (240k miles) - Completely Stock, Daily - Sold :(

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phils94850
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Post by phils94850 »

If your getting a shake without applying the brakes then I would say something is bent such as a wheel or a balance issue. Are you feeling it in the steering wheel or just a vibration in the car itself ?
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jblackburn
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Post by jblackburn »

What brand of axles did you use?

This sounds like crummy inner CV joints causing a wobble under load. There are a lot of crap aftermarket axles out there for these cars.
'98 S70 T5
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soulvoid1990
Posts: 35
Joined: 20 August 2013
Year and Model: 2007 S60 2.5T
Location: PA, US

Post by soulvoid1990 »

jblackburn wrote:What brand of axles did you use?

This sounds like crummy inner CV joints causing a wobble under load. There are a lot of crap aftermarket axles out there for these cars.
I'm thinking the same thing. I ordered it online from advanced auto, so I'll still have a receipt. Since the boot ripped after a couple miles.. I'll try to get my money back and get a good one from FCP or Rockauto, and change it out. It seems to be getting worse, and feels like its coming from the passengers side, right by the inner joint.

I'll respond with the outcome soon.

Thanks again!

Edit: Also, when corning to the left a little on the hard side, it wobbles horribly after the turn and clunks mid turn 1 or 2 times.
Last edited by soulvoid1990 on 06 Nov 2014, 18:10, edited 1 time in total.
2007 S60 2.5T AWD - Daily, Stock
1994 850 T5 (175k miles) - 5 Speed Swap, Angled Exhaust Housing, 3" Downpipe, 2.5" custom exhaust, Intake, ARD Stage 2 Tune, Various Bolt-ons.
1994 850 N/A Autobox (240k miles) - Completely Stock, Daily - Sold :(

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soulvoid1990
Posts: 35
Joined: 20 August 2013
Year and Model: 2007 S60 2.5T
Location: PA, US

Post by soulvoid1990 »

phils94850 wrote:If your getting a shake without applying the brakes then I would say something is bent such as a wheel or a balance issue. Are you feeling it in the steering wheel or just a vibration in the car itself ?
I replaced all 4 pads and rotors, and the calipers are in great shape. No vibration from braking, but if there is wobble, its only because it was doing it at that time, not because I was braking, if that makes sense, haha.

I did replace the rim that was bent a while ago and I didn't have this wobble at that point, even with the bent rim. The tire was replaced too. I also rotated the tires to make sure that wasn't the case. Did the X pattern and it still does it. Tires are fine, the back doesn't have any issues at all. I have the Winterforce tires, I hate them, but they are good tires. No problems with them at all.

As far as where I'm feeling it, I can feel it through the steering, but some times more than others. Some times I only feel it from the wheel, and whether its just one side, or both.
2007 S60 2.5T AWD - Daily, Stock
1994 850 T5 (175k miles) - 5 Speed Swap, Angled Exhaust Housing, 3" Downpipe, 2.5" custom exhaust, Intake, ARD Stage 2 Tune, Various Bolt-ons.
1994 850 N/A Autobox (240k miles) - Completely Stock, Daily - Sold :(

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dosbricks
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Post by dosbricks »

soulvoid1990 wrote:.... So when this happened, the left mount for the passengers side control arm got pushed up about 3/4". I tried to bend it back, but we couldn't get enough leverage. We almost pulled the car off the lift :mrgreen:

Sage
So this attachment point for the control arm is still bent??
Did you return the control arms to normal ride height before tightening their pivot bolts? If not, the bushings may already be toast. Even if they were returned to normal ride height, the passenger side pivot points are not on the same axis if the attachment bracket on the sub-frame is still bent. That abnormal geometry could be enough to cause quick bushing failure.
'98 S70, 230k, purchased new in '98
'96 855 GLT, 163k, purchased lightly used in '99
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soulvoid1990
Posts: 35
Joined: 20 August 2013
Year and Model: 2007 S60 2.5T
Location: PA, US

Post by soulvoid1990 »


So this attachment point for the control arm is still bent??
Did you return the control arms to normal ride height before tightening their pivot bolts? If not, the bushings may already be toast. Even if they were returned to normal ride height, the passenger side pivot points are not on the same axis if the attachment bracket on the sub-frame is still bent. That abnormal geometry could be enough to cause quick bushing failure.
It is still bent, and I will heat it up and bend it back the next time I have it on the lift. HOWever, we did load them before we tightened the control arm down, and I inspect them every few days in the driveway, and they seem Ok. This wobbled was still there as I was leaving the garage, there's no way that the bushing was killed withing the time it was brought off the lift and driven. I also made sure that they were greased very well because of this.

I will be doing work to it soon, I'm going to replace the two worn motor mounts, and possibly the CV axle again. Depends on how $$ looks. It seems to be ok, and they are fixing the roads in my area, so I should be ok for quite some time, it's just unnerving not knowing whats wrong.

Any extra advise on how to straighten that attachment bracket back would be great!

Thanks!
Sage
2007 S60 2.5T AWD - Daily, Stock
1994 850 T5 (175k miles) - 5 Speed Swap, Angled Exhaust Housing, 3" Downpipe, 2.5" custom exhaust, Intake, ARD Stage 2 Tune, Various Bolt-ons.
1994 850 N/A Autobox (240k miles) - Completely Stock, Daily - Sold :(

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