Official Engine Stalling Thread

Post by **MadeInJapan** » 21 Feb 2007, 21:17

Thermostats are always good to replace if after the car warms up the needle on the dash for temp. isn't exactly at the 3:00 position, but for you, I'm thinking fuel pump relay. These tend to develop intermittent issues until they finally go.

motor_werke · Post by **motor_werke** » 25 Feb 2007, 22:04

Well, my 1994 850, 5cyl non-turbo with 118k miles is having similar stalling issues. I have read every post on the 21 pages, and have tried many of the suggested fixes to no avail. Some of the more expensive fixes are still on the plate. Here's the history of the problem.

First stall: Back in January, I was driving home at night, and the car had been running for about 15 minutes. I was going 70 on the highway when I felt a lurch, but the engine went back to normal after a second. This happened about a minute later, and this was my sign to turn off the highway. About 3 minutes later, on smaller local roads, I turned right onto a road and about 50 feet after the turn, the engine died. All the dash lights came on. I tried starting it, but the engine simply cranked to no avail. Tried this again after a few minutes and it still failed. A friend helped push the car into a nearby parking lot. I came back the next morning, and tried to read the codes, but none were stored. I tried to start the car and it fired right up! I drove the car home (25 minutes) without an issue.

The next time I drove the car, a few days later, I got about 10to 15 minutes into the trip when the engine failed again. Engine would not restart so pulled off the highway. Read the codes, but got the dreaded 1-1-1 showing none stored. About 5 minutes later the car started right up. I drove it 30 minutes or so without a problem.

The next day, when I drove the car, I drove about 15 minutes then put the car in park and let it idle for 30 seconds while I grabbed my mail. The engine cut off while idling.

---> This is where I installed the new fuel pump relay (103 in the fuse box), thinking my troubles were over.

To test the new relay, I drove the car for ~4 minutes around the block then let it idle in my driveway. The car idled for about 5 minutes then died. The car started right up, so I put it in the garage to woprk on.I poked around the engine compartment and noticed a vacuum hose was off. It is the one that goes from throttle body area over towards the airbox. I plugged this back in hoping that I had fixed the issue. I drove around the block for a few minutes, and the "studdered" for a second but kept running. I made it back home, and let the car idle in the drive way. After about 30 seconds, the engine died. I tried starting it again and it fired right up!

----> I took off the throttle body and cleaned it, checked the flame trap which was filthy and gunked up, but there was no screen mesh there. I also took care to clean the butterfly as it too had a small amount of gunk on it. Another thing I noticed about the flame trap was that it was slightly crooked and it turns out the gasket was pinched, which was causing it not to seat correctly. I wiped a decent amount of oil-soak gunk away from the flame trap/throttlebody area. After all this cleaning, I thought I might have a shot of this working.

I took another trip around the block and the car died 3 minutes into it. I tried restarting to no avail. Every few minutes I tried to start, and the engine cranked and cranked but didnt fire up. About 25 minutes into this ordeal it finally started up. I made it about 30 seconds towards my house when it failed again. I tried starting it, but it wouldnt start. Tried this for 25 minutes and gave up. I walked home and came back an hour later. Again, the car wouldnt start. I folded the rear seat and tried listening for the pump. I could hear some noises, but not sure what In was hearing. It was coming from the rear near the fuel pump area. I'm guessing it was pressureizing the system. After about 10 minutes, the car fired up and I was able to make it home. This was a whole 1 minute drive, and after I pulled it, put the car into park, it died 1 minute later. In desperation, I tried reading the codes, and yet again got 1-1-1, no code stored.

So, any ideas? I've seen talk of replacing the camshaft position sensor and/or the fuel pump. If the fuel pump was bad, would I get intermittent failures? I'm a bit leary to press on the fuel rail valve to see if it is pressurized. Any good tests for the fuel pump? Thanks in advance for any ideas!

Post by **MadeInJapan** » 26 Feb 2007, 05:10

Don't be afraid to push in on th fuel rail's shrader valve. You should get a good squirt. Just thinking of simple things here- when was the last time your fuel filter was changed? Other than this there's always the possibility of lack of spark (rotor, wires, plugs).

motor_werke · Post by **motor_werke** » 26 Feb 2007, 06:08

I'm at 118k milses now. The fuel filter was replaced at 93k, and a new distributor cap, rotor, and spark plugs were installed at 103k. Again, this was all done by the first owner, I've only owned the car since 109k.

I am a little interested in that the previous owner brought the car in for service at 103k for the above, and they also serviced the flame trap, replaced throtle body gasket, etc. Wondering if they had the same issues and thus had all that work done. How often does the dist cap, etc get replaced normaly? I see it was done at 60k, so 103k to have it done again sounds a bit early.

I might just have to press on the fuel rail. Not a big fan of fuel coming out near a hot engine. I'm thinking perhaps take a 20oz coke bottle, dril a small hole in the bottom and put a small pipe in there. Then, I can put the mouth of the bottle over the fuel rail and use the stick to press it. The bottle should contain the fuel.

motor_werke · Post by **motor_werke** » 26 Feb 2007, 12:09

Is it possible that fouled spark plugs could cause stalling issues? The current plugs are only 15k miles old, is it worth pulling them and taking a look? I'm guessing one to two fouled plugs would cause misfires not a sudden engine shutdown.

Sarasota · Post by **Sarasota** » 23 Mar 2007, 06:34

Just as a side note, don't know if this will work for you or not.
My car, Volvo 850 1994 wagon was having problems as soon as I came to a readlight etc. It was very hesitant in the idling and sounded like it was about to die everytime I came to a stop. It was even worse when I had the AC on.
Then one day it suddenly overheated. So I replaced the stuck closed thermostat and the overheating stopped and my ideling problems were completely gone.

My conclusion (also confirmed by "CarVolvo" senior member here on the forum) would be that the thermostat was about to fail and was somewhat closed for a while, causing the car to run hot and therefor affecting the ideling.. So there is a correlation between coolant temperature and stalling, thermostat or coolant temperature sensor. Thermostat took 5 minutes to replace and cost about $6 so it is worth a try...

Hope it helps someone...

motor_werke · Post by **motor_werke** » 23 Mar 2007, 07:44

I also looked to see if it was temperature related, but the engine temp always reads normal during the stalls. My issue is getting worse, it used to take 15 to 20 minutes to stall, now it will stall in under 2 minutes. Instead of driving it and getting stranded, I let the car idle in the driveway.

I tried pressing on the fuel rail, and sure enough, after the stall it was still pressurized, so it doesn't look to be fuel system related. Now I'm thinking a bad sensor, or worst case, a failing ECU. I'm looking for any ideas! I already spent 60 replacing the fuel pump relay, which turned out not to fix anything.

Sarasota · Post by **Sarasota** » 23 Mar 2007, 07:51

My temp gauge read normal during my stalls, it was not until the thermostat completely failed shut that my temp gauge of course shot up..
Just saying it it a cheap and very simple replacement to change your thermostat..

Sounds like you might have a different problem though, have you checked the coolant temperature sensor?

motor_werke · Post by **motor_werke** » 23 Mar 2007, 07:56

I havn't checked the coolant temp sensor. Is there a way to diagnose that? I wish the car would throw me some error codes, it keeps coming up clean. Is the thermostat really $6 ? Where did you get it that cheap?

I did buy some mass airflow sensor cleaner, and willl try that this weekend. With all the oil blowback I found, I'm guessing the MAS has some residue on it. Something tells me that would lead to a rough running motor, not random stalls. But, I guess it doesn't hurt.

Sarasota · Post by **Sarasota** » 23 Mar 2007, 08:07

The thermostat is very cheap, got it at Autozone locally, should not be more than $7..
Here it costs $9 http://www.fcpgroton.com/volvo850cooling.htm

There is a large section about the coolant temp sensor causing stalls if it is malfunctioning because it basically tells the onboard computer that the car is cold when it is not and vice versa. There were some info on how to test it with an OHM meter, I found the info here on this site but as you know it is hard to recollect where you find the info.

The temp sensor costs around $30 also at the above link.

Like I said, I have no idea if this is your problem but I always would like to test the least expensive items first.

Both of the above items can be replaced in under 15 minutes.

What MAF cleaner did you purchase? Do you have any instructions to share on how to do the cleaning (I am also going to do it).