Which ELM327 tool will work best with these 850's?

[rspi]

I have seen several post about the ELM327 tools. I went to eBay and seen several of them, most from China. I would like to get one, learn how to reset the service light if possible, and read broken odometers. Can someone tell me which one to purchase?

Thanks

[hausmeister]

I also wanted to try this and bought this one which does not work:
http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00ALQE ... svolvo3-20

I didn't expected It to work to be honest.
I tried to find some reliable info on which adapter to get, but couldn't find anything except this site http://jonesrh.info/volvo850/elm327_why_i_use.html but this is also not very useful.
If anyone has gotten this to work (bluetooth adapter + p1 volvo) I would also be interested. I think these cars just don't work with standard adapters.

[gmh]

https://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/forums ... =1&t=66835

https://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/forums ... =1&t=61976

[misha]

Elm327 will work for engine only.That said....it will work for live data reading,reading & clearing engine codes and that's it.

It will not read & connect to other modules in the car.Just for engine data.

[esl_97_850_T5]

Robert,

You've commented before that you don't want or don't trust the Chinese tools. You have experience with ScanTool.net's ScanGauge and have experience with how they keep the software updated (assuming they keep making the tool ). I'm very satisfied with my OBDLink SX that I've had for 1.25 years. And I'm very satisfied with ScanTool.net's technical assistance. They have the OBDLink SX on sale now for just under $30. It has a 3-year warranty. It is firmware updatable. In almost all ways, I consider the OBDLink SX superior to the (usually Chinese made) ELM327 clone cables.

And it is virtually certain you'll be able to read the 1996-1997 850 and 1998 S70/V70/XC70 mileages and reset those cars SERVICE light if you use the volvo850diag software, if you have a laptop that will run WinXP or Win7, has USB 2.0 ports, and is not too old. I've used volvo850diag on a vintage 2002 Pentium III 1GHz laptop and on a vintage ~2005 Pentium M 2GHz laptop. Worked fine on both.

If you have your sights on using a Bluetooth or WiFi based tool...

I personally have no direct experience with the Bluetooth and WiFi tools. But I do know...

- ScanTool.net's Bluetooth and WiFi tools are considerably pricier than the Chinese counterparts. Higher quality does have a cost.

- I personally am planning on buying the ScanTool.net OBDLink LX Bluetooth Scan Tool (the one that is ~$70 now on the ScanTool.net site) for the simple reason that I want to see if there are any Bluetooth issues that I need to compensate for in volvo850diag, and I don't want to waste any of my time on any deficiencies of cheap Bluetooth clones. I plan on buying my OBDLink LX directly from the ScanTool.net site, even though the (real) OBDLink LX Bluetooth Scan Tool can be bought for $5-10 cheaper via eBay or Amazon.

- There are Chinese fakes on eBay and Amazon that are colored yellow to look like the real OBDLink LX Bluetooth and are generally priced in the $10-30 range. I've expressly chosen to not be tempted by them. I want the real STNxxxx chip available in the ScanTool.net tools.

- At least one person, Mike91 over at brickboard.com, has used the ScanTool.net OBDLink MX Bluetooth Scan Tool (the pricier $100 tool) to successfully scan 3 different '98 V70/XC70. I would plan on buying it instead of the OBDLink LX Bluetooth, but as a matter of principle I just don't want to spend $100 on a scan tool . Actually, what Mike91 did was use Bluetooth to talk between his laptop and the OBDLink MX, then he used WiFi to talk with his internet router and used kwpd3b0_interpreter to get the volvo850diag logs interpreted -- all this while he was still sitting in the car.

When you want to do live data reading -- eg, looking at the O2 sensors fluctuating, or whatever -- I suggest using the free OBDwiz software supplied with the OBDLink tools, if you're going to run the scanning software from a Windows laptop.

If you don't want to use a Windows laptop, but use an Android device instead, you might want to use the popular Torque app (it would be worth the ~$6 for the Torque Pro version). You'll be able to view the legally mandated OBDII info that way as pretty, live data.

However, the Torque app (to my knowledge) still doesn't provide access to the COMBI, SRS, ABS, AW 50-42, Immobilizer, and Power Seat ECUs. To get access to those ECUs (or to access the Motronic 4.4 via the KWPD3B0 protocol), you'll need something like the Android based "ELM 327 Terminal" app. It can be tedious to use that app, but at least it provides Android based ELM327 access to the '96-'97 850 and '98 S70/V70 ECUs -- all of them.

The esl_97_850_T5 post viewtopic.php?f=1&t=61976#p318664, from the thread pointed to by gmh's 2nd link, shows a color-coded example of what needs to be typed in to the "ELM 327 Terminal" app to successfully access the mileage from the COMBI. You might need to experiment with ATE0 instead of ATE1. Also, you might find that ATSP 3 is more reliable than ATSP 3A. [Most any terminal emulator capable of talking to an ELM327 device, regardless of the platform the terminal emulator is running on, will need to send the characters after the ELM327's ">" prompt in that list, in order to retrieve the '96-'98 850/S70/V70 vehicle mileage.]

The esl_97_850_T5 post viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56321&start=28#p332575 documents what would need to be sent to the terminal emulator to reset the SERVICE light.

If you want to run from an Apple platform, then I suggest the OBDLink MX WiFi tool, with whatever software you find that works on that platform. You'll have to do your own research to find something functionally equivalent to the Android based "ELM 327 Terminal" emulator or the Windows based ScanTool.net freeware "STNterm", along with something functional equivalent to Torque Pro or OBDwiz "pretty OBDII scanners", that runs on that Apple platform.

Note the links from "gmh". He has successfully used a BAFX Bluetooth ELM327 device to access the COMBI with the Android based "ELM 327 Terminal" emulator. More importantly and more extensively, gmh has used that same BAFX Bluetooth ELM327 device in conjunction with volvo850diag running on a WinXP system to perform (multiple times on multiple days) a complete OBDII scan on his Motronic 4.3 -- just like a run-of-the-mill OBDII scanner would do -- as well as to perform a complete scan of his COMBI, SRS, ABS, AW 50-42, and Power Seats ECUs. He has also used volvo850diag to reprogram his SERVICE Reminder Interval limits (on multiple occasions).

gmh's experiences directly conflicts with misha's assertion that only the engine data can be read with an ELM327 device. I have no idea where misha is getting his info from.

So what had you planned to do?
Had you planned to use USB cable, serial cable, Bluetooth, WiFi, or what, as your scanning hardware?
What software had you planned to use to read the vehicle mileage and reset the SERVICE light?
What kind of computer had you planned to run the software on?
What operating system had you planned to run the software on?
What terminal emulator were you planning on using, if any?

Whatever you decide, do yourself a favor and do not decide on the cheapest possible Chinese Bluetooth ELM327 clone. Use some common sense. If you must go the clone route, then try the BAFX product that gmh linked to in his first link. That worked for him, and I've read elsewhere where it worked for other people to perform typical OBDII scanning. It's not the cheapest Bluetooth ELM327 around, but it's definitely more affordable than the ScanTool.net OBDlink LX.

If you go the ELM327 USB cable route, then you probably can get a cheap Chinese clone. Mine has worked acceptably well. And I think most of them do.

In summation: For your particular case, since you have previous experience with the ScanTool.net ScanGauge (or ScanGauge II), I suggest you go with:

- either the OBDLink LX Bluetooth, OBDLink MX Bluetooth, or OBDLink WiFi tool,
- OBDwiz software for live OBDII engine data (if run on Windows),
- either Torque Pro or one of the Android based ScanTool.net recommended OBDII scanning packages for live OBDII engine data (if run on Android),
- ScanTool.net's STNterm terminal emulator (if run on Windows) for when you just want to issue a few ELM327 command and KWPD3B0 requests manually,
- volvo850diag (if run on Windows)for SERVICE light resetting, vehicle mileage reading, DTC reading/clearing of all ECUs, SERVICE Reminder Interval limits reprogramming, etc using a GUI with pushbuttons. But with volvo850diag you have to put up with separate, after-the-scan interpretation via kwpd3b0_interpreter (or via your own manual interpretation).

esl_97_850_T5

[rspi]

Yikes! I'll have to read that on my computer.

I am not opposed to getting and using Chinese made stuff, however, I do remember complaining about the 3 Craftman 1/2" breaker bars that were made in China, which broke one after the other.

All I want the tool for is to reset the.service light and read the mileage from the cluster. For less than $50 I will be thrilled with.that. I will also be able to pass that useful information on to.others through.places like here.and YouTube.

To be honest with.you, reading the 42 page post with.the instruction on how to use the ELM327 really intimadated me. So I'm not really looking forward to.learning it but a lot of people would like to.know how to do it and a video demonstration might help them.

I have an old laptop computer with all kinds of ports and a new business class HP that has several ports and Windows 7. The ELM327 route may be easier for most since a lot of people are getting them but whatever works will do.

[precopster]

I've had no trouble connecting the cheapest ELM327 adapters such as the one in the Amazon link above to P2 S60 2002, P2 XC70 2001 & 2002, 1999 & 2000 Denso V70s and finally P80 1998 V70R with ME 4.4.

Just by running Torque application the ELM327 misses many codes and faults such as transmission code on my '98 V70R which I used Vol-FCR to clear.

I run Samsung Note II (previous phone was Samsung Galaxy S2) and sometimes a Google Nexus 7 inch tablet. Connection is not always on the first attempt. Sometimes a reboot of phone is required

I'm certain it can do much more with the correct user friendly interface but the command lines and such are simply beyond most peoples' level of understanding. Someone should design a PC or Android app that works and can access all the data on all the modules that have been documented.

.

[mecheng]

Robert,

You've commented before that you don't want or don't trust the Chinese tools. You have experience with ScanTool.net's ScanGauge and have experience with how they keep the software updated (assuming they keep making the tool ). I'm very satisfied with my OBDLink SX that I've had for 1.25 years. And I'm very satisfied with ScanTool.net's technical assistance. They have the OBDLink SX on sale now for just under $30. It has a 3-year warranty. It is firmware updatable. In almost all ways, I consider the OBDLink SX superior to the (usually Chinese made) ELM327 clone cables.

And it is virtually certain you'll be able to read the 1996-1997 850 and 1998 S70/V70/XC70 mileages and reset those cars SERVICE light if you use the volvo850diag software, if you have a laptop that will run WinXP or Win7, has USB 2.0 ports, and is not too old. I've used volvo850diag on a vintage 2002 Pentium III 1GHz laptop and on a vintage ~2005 Pentium M 2GHz laptop. Worked fine on both.

If you have your sights on using a Bluetooth or WiFi based tool...

I personally have no direct experience with the Bluetooth and WiFi tools. But I do know...

- ScanTool.net's Bluetooth and WiFi tools are considerably pricier than the Chinese counterparts. Higher quality does have a cost.

- I personally am planning on buying the ScanTool.net OBDLink LX Bluetooth Scan Tool (the one that is ~$70 now on the ScanTool.net site) for the simple reason that I want to see if there are any Bluetooth issues that I need to compensate for in volvo850diag, and I don't want to waste any of my time on any deficiencies of cheap Bluetooth clones. I plan on buying my OBDLink LX directly from the ScanTool.net site, even though the (real) OBDLink LX Bluetooth Scan Tool can be bought for $5-10 cheaper via eBay or Amazon.

- There are Chinese fakes on eBay and Amazon that are colored yellow to look like the real OBDLink LX Bluetooth and are generally priced in the $10-30 range. I've expressly chosen to not be tempted by them. I want the real STNxxxx chip available in the ScanTool.net tools.

- At least one person, Mike91 over at brickboard.com, has used the ScanTool.net OBDLink MX Bluetooth Scan Tool (the pricier $100 tool) to successfully scan 3 different '98 V70/XC70. I would plan on buying it instead of the OBDLink LX Bluetooth, but as a matter of principle I just don't want to spend $100 on a scan tool . Actually, what Mike91 did was use Bluetooth to talk between his laptop and the OBDLink MX, then he used WiFi to talk with his internet router and used kwpd3b0_interpreter to get the volvo850diag logs interpreted -- all this while he was still sitting in the car.

When you want to do live data reading -- eg, looking at the O2 sensors fluctuating, or whatever -- I suggest using the free OBDwiz software supplied with the OBDLink tools, if you're going to run the scanning software from a Windows laptop.

If you don't want to use a Windows laptop, but use an Android device instead, you might want to use the popular Torque app (it would be worth the ~$6 for the Torque Pro version). You'll be able to view the legally mandated OBDII info that way as pretty, live data.

However, the Torque app (to my knowledge) still doesn't provide access to the COMBI, SRS, ABS, AW 50-42, Immobilizer, and Power Seat ECUs. To get access to those ECUs (or to access the Motronic 4.4 via the KWPD3B0 protocol), you'll need something like the Android based "ELM 327 Terminal" app. It can be tedious to use that app, but at least it provides Android based ELM327 access to the '96-'97 850 and '98 S70/V70 ECUs -- all of them.

The esl_97_850_T5 post viewtopic.php?f=1&t=61976#p318664, from the thread pointed to by gmh's 2nd link, shows a color-coded example of what needs to be typed in to the "ELM 327 Terminal" app to successfully access the mileage from the COMBI. You might need to experiment with ATE0 instead of ATE1. Also, you might find that ATSP 3 is more reliable than ATSP 3A. [Most any terminal emulator capable of talking to an ELM327 device, regardless of the platform the terminal emulator is running on, will need to send the characters after the ELM327's ">" prompt in that list, in order to retrieve the '96-'98 850/S70/V70 vehicle mileage.]

The esl_97_850_T5 post viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56321&start=28#p332575 documents what would need to be sent to the terminal emulator to reset the SERVICE light.

If you want to run from an Apple platform, then I suggest the OBDLink MX WiFi tool, with whatever software you find that works on that platform. You'll have to do your own research to find something functionally equivalent to the Android based "ELM 327 Terminal" emulator or the Windows based ScanTool.net freeware "STNterm", along with something functional equivalent to Torque Pro or OBDwiz "pretty OBDII scanners", that runs on that Apple platform.

Note the links from "gmh". He has successfully used a BAFX Bluetooth ELM327 device to access the COMBI with the Android based "ELM 327 Terminal" emulator. More importantly and more extensively, gmh has used that same BAFX Bluetooth ELM327 device in conjunction with volvo850diag running on a WinXP system to perform (multiple times on multiple days) a complete OBDII scan on his Motronic 4.3 -- just like a run-of-the-mill OBDII scanner would do -- as well as to perform a complete scan of his COMBI, SRS, ABS, AW 50-42, and Power Seats ECUs. He has also used volvo850diag to reprogram his SERVICE Reminder Interval limits (on multiple occasions).

gmh's experiences directly conflicts with misha's assertion that only the engine data can be read with an ELM327 device. I have no idea where misha is getting his info from.

So what had you planned to do?
Had you planned to use USB cable, serial cable, Bluetooth, WiFi, or what, as your scanning hardware?
What software had you planned to use to read the vehicle mileage and reset the SERVICE light?
What kind of computer had you planned to run the software on?
What operating system had you planned to run the software on?
What terminal emulator were you planning on using, if any?

Whatever you decide, do yourself a favor and do not decide on the cheapest possible Chinese Bluetooth ELM327 clone. Use some common sense. If you must go the clone route, then try the BAFX product that gmh linked to in his first link. That worked for him, and I've read elsewhere where it worked for other people to perform typical OBDII scanning. It's not the cheapest Bluetooth ELM327 around, but it's definitely more affordable than the ScanTool.net OBDlink LX.

If you go the ELM327 USB cable route, then you probably can get a cheap Chinese clone. Mine has worked acceptably well. And I think most of them do.

In summation: For your particular case, since you have previous experience with the ScanTool.net ScanGauge (or ScanGauge II), I suggest you go with:

- either the OBDLink LX Bluetooth, OBDLink MX Bluetooth, or OBDLink WiFi tool,
- OBDwiz software for live OBDII engine data (if run on Windows),
- either Torque Pro or one of the Android based ScanTool.net recommended OBDII scanning packages for live OBDII engine data (if run on Android),
- ScanTool.net's STNterm terminal emulator (if run on Windows) for when you just want to issue a few ELM327 command and KWPD3B0 requests manually,
- volvo850diag (if run on Windows)for SERVICE light resetting, vehicle mileage reading, DTC reading/clearing of all ECUs, SERVICE Reminder Interval limits reprogramming, etc using a GUI with pushbuttons. But with volvo850diag you have to put up with separate, after-the-scan interpretation via kwpd3b0_interpreter (or via your own manual interpretation).

esl_97_850_T5

I think you will have more ppl understanding what you write if you can provide the Coles notes version

[esl_97_850_T5]

Robert,

A video demo will definitely help to simplify things. Ideally, there should be two videos. One to show how to do your two desired functions using a terminal emulator, for those people who are forced to use a terminal emulator for one reason or another. And one to show how to do your two desired functions with the volvo850diag GUI pushbuttons, followed by getting the interpretations via kwpd3b0_interpreter.

One thing that I neglected to mention in the previous post is that the minimum Internet Explorer version that works with volvo850diag is IE8. I'm presuming that IE9, IE10, IE11 on Win7 will all work. [I've briefly tested volvo850diag with IE11 on a Win7 system at the library to see that it could talk to my ELM327 clone USB cable.]

I get the impression from user agents in the jonesrh.info log that a a growing number of 850 / S70 / V70 owners are using volvo850diag with IE11 on Win7 systems. But I'm not really sure, since hardly anyone ever communicates with me via the kwpd3b0_interpreter Paste box or via e-mail, telling what year/model cars they are scanning and what hardware/software they used to do the scanning.

You should assume that the minimum Windows version that works with volvo850diag is WinXP. I believe that anything up through Win8.1 should work. Hopefully, Win10 will. But it's safe to assume that WinXP and Win7 systems will work.

So probably either your old laptop (if it runs WinXP) or your Win7 HP system would be naturals for the video.

Another thing that needs to be mentioned when you buy your ELM327 device is to make sure that its lights are visible when plugged into the OBDII port. You can look at photos of the product's OBDII port's shape, look at your car's OBDII port's shape, examine which side of the product the lights are on, and figure out if the lights are going to be visible or not. I've seen both kinds of ELM327 devices. Some will have their lights facing the dash. That's not good. Some will have their lights facing the back of the car. That's good. In my case, I was stuck with one whose lights faced the dash. So I solved the problem by buying an OBDII Y connector which is inserted between the car's OBDII port and the ELM327 device. You should not have to do that. Just do your homework ahead of time to make sure you're buying a device whose lights will be visible to you once plugged into the car's OBDII port (and which is known to consistently work with our '96-'98 850/S70/V70).

Requirement #2 on elm327_reads_volvo_850_svc70_mileage.html:
To meet your $50 criteria, I'd suggest buying one of the ELM327 items mentioned in Requirement #2 on the ELM327 Reads Volvo 850 and SVC70 Mileage page -- either:

a) An ELM327 v1.4 (or higher) USB clone (preferably based on the Silicon Labs CP210x chip) and which has its lights visible when plugged into Volvo 850 OBDII port (ie, probably means lights are on the short side of the plug). These clones usually identify themselves as ELM327 v1.5. I've not yet seen one in the ELM327 v2 range. They probably cost from $10-18 now. I'd try to order one from the USA instead of from China. And I'd try to get one based on the Silicon Labs CP210x chip simply because the directions on my elm327_reads_volvo_850_svc70_mileage.html page assume that chip, so it'll be simpler for you to follow the steps.

or:

b) A ScanTool.net OBDLink SX USB cable. Available from ScanTool.net for $30 now.

or:

c) A BAFX Bluetooth OBD2. Available for $24 now.

Requirement #3 on elm327_reads_volvo_850_svc70_mileage.html:
Follow the suggestions on the How to Setup an ELM327 on WinXP page to download whatever drivers your device uses and perform the initial device setup. The instructions should be largely applicable to both WinXP and Win7 systems. You have to jump between 2 or 3 web sites, muddle through a bit, "wing it" a bit, possibly make a few mistakes and have to redo something, etc, before you finally get the drivers installed correctly. Don't be surprised if this part doesn't go smoothly at first. I'll leave it up to you if you follow your vendor's instructions or not.

Requirement #4 on elm327_reads_volvo_850_svc70_mileage.html:
Due to the simplicity of what you want to do -- reset the service light and read the mileage from the cluster -- I suggest you delay all the volvo850diag stuff and just use ScanTool.net's free STNterm terminal emulator as your initial foray into the ELM327 world. That'll temporarily simplify things for you. So click on the STNterm link in Requirement #4. That'll download the ScanTool.net stnterm.exe terminal emulator. It should work with any of the 3 ELM327 tools just mentioned. STNterm is free and is extremely easy and efficient to use. Plus it has a scrollable display whose contents can be easily copied then pasted into kwpd3b0_interpreter's Paste... box.

After getting STNterm downloaded, continue with the remainder of the instructions on the elm327_reads_volvo_850_svc70_mileage.html page until you finally complete the successful issuing of ELM327 commands to read mileage. The way you'll know that it is successful is those ELM327 commands (and KWPD3B0 requests) will generate responses which look simlar to what you see in the ELM327 ECU 51 commands & responses example (with links) section, from (let's say) the ATE1 or ATI (which follow the initial ATZ and ATL1) down through the 85 13 51 F9 03 xx yy cs response which follows the B903 request.

That'll get you through your first mileage reading.

You can then either manually interpret the hex responses using the instructions in the B903 section. Or you can submit the entire log that was recorded in STNterm's scrollable buffer into the Paste... box on the kwpd3b0_interpreter page, then press Interpret.

gmh's simplified explanation of how to read and interpret the mileage (quoting almost verbatim from one of his posts, but correcting to remove 850-specific 00-padded examples, changing ATE1 to ATE0 because ATE0 usually works better with STNterm, adding 1 desirable and 1 necessary ELM327 command, removing the optional ATSI command, and removing all the ">" prompts):

"It's really not bad at all. You need to type in or copy and paste the" 14 "commands below into the terminal one at a time, tapping" Send "after each. The ECU responds after each, usually with OK. After the" B903 "command, you'll get a string something like 85 13 51 F9 03 68 31 7E. Reverse the two pairs of numbers after F9 03 (in this case 3168) and that is the mileage stored in the cluster in hex (base 16). To decode, multiply 4th digit left of decimal times 4096 (16x16x16), the 3rd times 256 (16x16), the 2nd times 16 and 1st times 1. Add them all up and multiply by 10 and that's it.
Oh yeah, in hex A=10, B=11, C=12, D=13, E=14, F=15."

ATZ
ATL1
ATE0
ATI
ATSP 3
ATH1
ATAL
ATKW0
ATTA 13
ATRA 13
ATIIA 51
ATWM 82 51 13 A1
ATSH 83 51 13
B903

In the rare situations now when I do manual conversions, I open the Windows Calculator (via Start / All Programs / Accessories / Calculator), click View / Scientific, click Hex, click C (to clear the value), mentally do the swap (eg, in gmh's example, 68 31 becomes 3168), type those swapped digits into the calculator, then click Dec. That's easier for me rather than doing all the 4 calculations that gmh mentioned.

The easiest way to interpret the mileage is to paste it into kwpd3b0_interpreter and press Interpret.

Once you get that done, you can probably figure out how to reset the SERVICE light using the previously published links in this thread.

And once you get comfortable with that, we can jump into using volvo850diag to make it even simpler by just using the volvo850diag GUI's pushbuttons, bypassing all the typing and/or cutting and pasting of command/requests into the terminal emulator window.

esl_97_850_T5

[esl_97_850_T5]

I've had no trouble connecting the cheapest ELM327 adapters such as the one in the Amazon link above to P2 S60 2002, P2 XC70 2001 & 2002, 1999 & 2000 Denso V70s and finally P80 1998 V70R with ME 4.4.

Just by running Torque application the ELM327 misses many codes and faults such as transmission code on my '98 V70R which I used Vol-FCR to clear.

I run Samsung Note II (previous phone was Samsung Galaxy S2) and sometimes a Google Nexus 7 inch tablet. Connection is not always on the first attempt. Sometimes a reboot of phone is required

I'm certain it can do much more with the correct user friendly interface but the command lines and such are simply beyond most peoples' level of understanding. Someone should design a PC or Android app that works and can access all the data on all the modules that have been documented.

Mike,

1. I'm glad to hear that you've had good experiences with that cheap ELM327 Bluetooth from the Amazon link earlier in this thread -- with multiple Volvos, most importantly, with a '98 V70. That's enough for me to decide to not only get the OBDLink LX when I start doing bluetooth testing, but also to buy one similar to yours. Thanks for the input.

Even though I personally haven't had any problem yet with the cheap Chinese clones, I'll still opt for the ScanTool.net tools now that I can afford them. I do like their 3-year warranty and their technical customer service. And I do still have a level of mistrust of the cheap Chinese clones, since there are so very many people that have complained that they do not work. I obviously have lived long enough to know that some of those complaints are "operator error", rather than equipment failure. Nevertheless, I thought it was unwise to suggest to Robert that he get one as his first ELM327 buy, considering he already has good experiences with other ScanTool.net tools.

2. Agreed. The Torque app has serious deficiencies when it comes to seeing *all* the transmission and engine data that's really available.

I don't know of anyone that claims the Torque app can read all the transmission DTCs on a '96-'98 Volvo 850/S70/V70. The Torque app can only read that limited set of transmission DTCs that the AW 50-42 (or any diesel auto tranny) will report as part of the standard ISO 9141-2 based OBDII emission diagnostics protocol. It does this via functional addressing of ECU 33.

The same goes for the engine ECU. The Torque app can only read that limited set of engine DTCs (and live data) that the Motronic 4.3, Motronic 4.4, and MSA 15.7 report as part of the standard ISO 9141-2 based OBDII emission diagnostics. Again, it does this via functional adressing of ECU 33.

The # of those transmission DTCs and engine DTCs & live data that are reported via the standard OBDII protocol's functional addressing of ECU 33 are known to be less than the total # of transmission DTCs and engine DTCs & live data & saved data that can be reported by using the KWPD3B0 protocol via OBDII pin 7 to address the AW 50-42 TCM with the physical address of ECU 6E, address the Motronic 4.4 ECM with the physical address of ECU 7A, address the MSA 15.7 ECM with the physical address of ECU 11, and by using the KWP71 protocol via OBDII pin 3 to address the Motronic 4.3 ECM somehow.

Vol-FCR Full and Brick-Diag Free can both clear the transmission DTCs -- all of them -- with a VAG/COM KKL device. volvo850diag can also clear all the transmission DTCs, but does so with an ELM327 device.

3. Thanks for the Samsung Note II and Google Nexus 7" tablet notes about not always connecting on the first attempt, and that sometimes even a phone reboot is required. I'm somewhat surprised to hear the latter.

However, I didn't understand how you meant it to relate to the first and/or second paragraph. Is it a qualifier that even though you essentially have good experience with the cheap ELM327 Bluetooth adapters like the one at the Amazon link, they aren't perfect and sometimes they will not connect the first time? Or is it a qualifier that Torque had problems connecting on those devices sometimes, whereas other OBDII software was more reliable at the connection for the Samsung Note II and Google Nexus 7? Or is it just a statement that those 2 devices in particular seem to have more problems with OBDII port connections compared to other devices, eg, other phones, or other tablets, or PCs in general from Vol-FCR with VAG/COM KKL serial cables? Or what?

4. I absolutely, totally, 100%, wholeheartedly agree with you that a well designed PC or Android app is needed that can access all the data on all the ECUs in the '96-'98 Volvo 850/S70/V70. Better yet, I think Windows PC/tablet/phone, Android, Apple PC/tablet/phone, and Linux apps all need to be created to have the combined functionality of Vol-FCR Full, Brick-Diag Full, and volvo850diag / kwpd3b0_interpreter for those cars.

Ideally, I also want Torque and OBDwiz functionality merged with the app that talks to the ECUs via KWPD3B0.

But there needs to be such apps that can do it equally well with either a VAG/COM KKL serial or USB cable and/or an ELM327 device (whether USB, Bluetooth, or WiFi). There could be separate apps for the different hardware or there could be the same app that could handle both groupings of devices: VAG/COM KKL and ELM327.

Who knows if any such app will ever get done? No one should be depending on me to get it done, since my time, energy, and wherewithal are depleting, my access to '98 S70/V70 cars is near non-existent, and my low level Windows/Android communication experience is lacking.

What I personally would be content with is an open source, CC0 licensed, free app that can run on a $80 (or less) Windows 8.1 based tablet, have the functionality of volvo850diag, with all the remainder of the '98 S70/V70 ECUs added that are on the 850 and S70/V70 buttons in Vol-FCR, which can also immediately interpret the responses, and can display continuously monitored live and stored data in some sort of list, and which also understands all the COMBI's B9xx data, and can clear the COMBI's B90A Manipulation value. That would probably be the least work for me, yet it would likely be 1-2 years in the future. And someone else could deal with converting it to Android, if another Android app hadn't been created by then.

5. One important thing I want to emphasize is that *all* the things that a VAG/COM KKL device can be used for by Vol-FCR as it's presently released -- namely for KWPD3B0 communication -- can be performed by an ELM327 v1.4 (and later) device.

But that doesn't override the VAG/COM KKL device's overall superiority over the ELM327, since a VAG/COM KKL device can also be used (with some additional hardware) for things like KWP71 based access of live data and stored data from a Motronic 4.3, remapping of various engine ECUs, etc.

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