P0016 after cleaning CVVT Solenoids

ZuluSafari · Post by **ZuluSafari** » 31 Jul 2016, 18:30

Good evening, everyone-

New to Volvos, and having fun learning the nuances!

I recently purchased a 2008 S60 2.5T, automatic transmission, FWD, 184,000 miles. So far, I love the car, but it has a few quirks:

The front strut mounts were broken on both sides, and have been replaced. The driver side low beam headlight wasn't getting power, so a standard relay and ignition on trigger was fashioned to power a new H11 pigtail, giving lights when the car is on.

The CEL was on, with codes P0026 and P0027 when I bought the car, and I could see the oil was pretty dark. I changed the oil with Castrol Edge Titanium, new filter of course, and then cleaned both intake and exhaust CVVT solenoids. They had lots of varnish buildup, and now are squeaky clean. I reassembled everything, replaced the front brake rotors and pads (messed up the springs, but found my mistake through research here!) and then fired up the car to go for a test drive.

The car idled and ran fine before I did the maintenance work, but now it idles rough and throws P0016. It surges, kind of in a wavy fashion like an old Detroit Diesel 2-stroke. I did some more reading on the internet, and discovered I didn't properly disconnect the battery when working on the lights - I have never had a car that had a specific procedure other than take off the Negative cable first! I then did the reset procedure, clamping the positive and negative cables together, then reattaching to the battery about 30 minutes later. I still have a rough idle, and P0016. The car drives and handles well at highway speed - I tried to have the system "relearn" how to run, based on instructions I found for older models with similar issues - to no avail.

Other than cleaning the CVVT, I haven't messed with anything related to the timing belt or cams at all. What am i missing? The timing belt looks good upon visual inspection, but I have no service history to reference when it has been changed in the past. All other posts I have found on the P0016 related to cam timing being 1 tooth off when performing Timing Belt changes. Could the now clean CVVT intake solenoid be causing a problem that was masked while the solenoid was inoperable before?

Thank you very much for any advice! I need to travel for work this week, leaving me only next weekend to get this car sorted out before my sons need it for school!

Post by **abscate** » 01 Aug 2016, 04:22

Could be the solenoid or the cam sensor/wires

Rough running can be a loose vacuum hose, on a high mileage car it's easy to knock a crumbling hose loose as you work under the hood.

Post by **oragex** » 01 Aug 2016, 05:13

Did you drop the solenoids in a can with solvent? If they are damaged, these are readily available used on Ebay
If the replacement spring seats are not Sachs part, I'd keep an eye on them

Post by **vtl** » 01 Aug 2016, 08:34

Check timing belt marks, it throws similar error even if one camshaft is one tooth off.

ZuluSafari · Post by **ZuluSafari** » 02 Aug 2016, 15:55

I will take the covers off this weekend and check the timing marks. If the Intake CVVT hub is stuck, will that cause the incorrect cam signal?

Post by **vtl** » 02 Aug 2016, 15:56

ZuluSafari · Post by **ZuluSafari** » 08 Aug 2016, 20:31

Good evening all-

Just as an update: I removed the front and top timing covers, as well as the camshaft position sensors and tone rings. I then turned the engine over by hand, and came up with more confusion than answers.

First, the timing marks on the cam sprockets are on the trailing edge of a tooth, on both intake and exhaust gears. The Crankshaft timing marks are exceptionally hard to see, and required shooting the crank gear with some brake cleaner to clean out the little grooves.

When I turn the crank to line up the timing mark, the tooth in front of each cam timing mark is lined up perfectly with the timing marks in the top cover, while the little stamped timing marks are lined up with the trailing edge of the top cover timing notch.

If I just turn the crank to this position, then the rear slots of the cams are in line with the parting seam on the rear of the camshaft cover, and look perfect for the cam holding tool. (I have one of them on order, won't have it until Friday at the earliest.)

If I follow the "turn the crankshaft 1/4 beyond, then backward until the timing marks are lined up again," the rear of the camshafts look to be between 10 - 15 degrees off from the parting line. Now, the cam locking tool will not be in correct position, so I am confused which position the cam gears should be in for me to remove the timing belt. The belt itself looks good, but the idler and tensioners look worn - as if someone replaced the belt but not the other parts. I found a Contitech kit locally, expecting to replace the belt, tensioner, and idler today, but I am unsure of which position to be in before I remove the old parts!

My car has CVVT hubs on both Exhaust and Intake, and I am afraid to screw it up. Like I said in the first post - the car ran well until I cleaned the CVVT solenoids, which were throwing P0026 and P0027 codes. Once everything was reassembled, the car idles poorly and is throwing the P0016 code. The intake camshaft sensor housing had a significant amount of dust and fine sand inside, while the exhaust had just a couple old drops of oil/melted grease.

If the CVVT solenoid was bad, wouldn't I still get the P0026 code, not the P0016? Isn't there a specific code for the Cam Position Sensor, if it was bad? Same for the Crankshaft sensor? I tried to test the solenoid, but my test leads are too big to safely engage the pins without shorting each other! I ordered a new Intake CVVT solenoid and gasket anyway, but throwing parts at it is going to get expensive fast. If it needs a new Intake CVVT Hub, that is another $300.00, and the CMS and CKS are about $80.00 each! If I swap the Cam Sensors from intake to exhaust, might I get the P0017 instead, or would there be potential for something more catastrophic?

Is there a procedure for cleaning the CVVT hub and its oil passages while on the car, or do I have to remove and replace it? I heard the Toyota's were disposable with no user serviceable parts inside, but there are good instructions online how to service those yourself, instead.

I also am having trouble re-watching the FCP Timing Belt youtube video -- it freezes about 15 seconds in. I also see it is a 2003 S60 non-turbo, with exhaust CVVT only; and he doesn't turn 1/4 forward, then reverse before he removes and replaces the timing belt. Is the the 2008 2.5T that much different from a 2003 2.4?

I love the car, but this has me really concerned. My 16 year old son needs this car to drive to school, and I am not confident it will keep running at stop lights for him.

Please help!

Post by **vtl** » 08 Aug 2016, 20:45

Turning VVT engine backwards trying to the find alignment marks makes no sense. If you turn it forwards and can get marks aligned well - that is what you want. But since you were getting codes for both solenoids - I wonder if the crankshaft missed the tooth? Especially you mentioned the tensioner was likely not changed.

You don't need any locking tool. Just use white corrector fluid to mark belt position on all 3 sprockets, remove the belt, copy marks on a new belt and install it. This way you never miss a tooth. Use large paper clips to fix belt on cam sprockets. This is, of course, works only in case the timing was perfect.

Some people change the belt without removing the harmonic balancer from the crankshaft. I found it was very easy to remove the large nut with semi-weak cheap electric impact wrench on both cars where I did the belt.

ZuluSafari · Post by **ZuluSafari** » 08 Aug 2016, 21:13

I don't understand the reason for turning the engine forward 1/4 turn then back again either, but it has been mentioned over and over on youtube and in various forums as the proper way to "unload" the CVVT hubs when changing the timing belt. To me, the hubs will reload the second the car starts up again, pulling the hubs tight against the forward stops anyway. Shouldn't they then be in that position when the belt is changed out? I also don't see how they can be so far off from the rear of the camshaft alignment that way. The online 2003 S60 instructions must not apply to the 2008 engine.

Looking at the photos I snapped earlier tonight, it does look like the crankshaft might be off one tooth forward. I also can clearly see that at some point the intake cam gear was bolted on in a different position, as there is a well defined scar in the surface of the mounting slot where the bolt was in a different place.

I am not a fan of transferring marks from old belts to new belts, as it was not good for either Subarus or VW's in the past. Are Volvos more forgiving? I hear modern timing belts do not suffer stretch anywhere near what old belt designs used to! If is the best way to go, then I might try it. I would mark the Camshaft timing marks, reset the crank back 1 tooth, and install everything.

ZuluSafari · Post by **ZuluSafari** » 08 Aug 2016, 21:33

Intake cam sprocket and hub.

Exhaust Sprocket and hub.

Crank Sprocket.

Note that the Cam Gear timing marks appear to be trailing the top cover timing marks, while the crank gear is lined up to the boss.

Before I could locate the crank timing marks, I lined the Cam Gear marks up with the center of the top cover timing notches:

and the rear of the camshafts looked like this:

Intake side.

Exhaust side.

This leads me to believe the crank is too far advanced, since the engine boss was not in any crank groove at this point - it might have been pointing at the trailing timing mark on the crank sprocket, but I hadn't cleaned off the gear yet.