98 V70: Strng Rack Too Worn for Alignment?

[sleddriver]

Finally found a shop with an opening. They took it for a spin, put it on a lift, and had it down within 30min. Problem was "the rack was moving up & down, meaning it's worn out and therefore needs to be changed first before an alignment can be done." Said they had a guy in the seat holding the steering wheel, while another tugged back 'n forth on a wheel. Doing so made the "rack move up & down".

I don't understand how a rack can move "up and down"......

I asked if it was loose..."no". He just said the rack is worn out. First time ever at this place as my usual indy shop doesn't do alignments. The last time it was aligned was about 5 yrs ago. Since then, I've done front end work recently replacing the outer tie rod ends (only because the boots were torn. The rack was replaced at ~ 80,000mi due to blown seals. Current mileage is 214,000. I don't detect any "slop" in the steering).

The rack was referb'd by Maval, with a lifetime warranty. It was leaking badly on the passenger side. I recently flushed with new Valvoline Max-life 100% synthetic ATF, then added AT-205 re-seal. All the leaking stopped after about 3 days.

1. Can a rack be badly enough worn to screw up the alignment, if the IN/OUT tie rods are tight? Never heard of that....
2. My indy said he's never seen a Volvo rack on S/V cars fail. They'll leak, but not wear out. Mine OEM rack certainly failed at 80,000mi...it was spewing fluid everywhere.....talk about "bite my wallet"....
3. I talked to another indy shop and will take it to him tomorrow around 11am. He was recommended by indy #2 who only works on Volvos. Indy #2 does do alignments, but at $100 and I have to leave the car. A bit high just to adjust the toe.....

Haven't dived deep into alignments, front end geometry, etc. so I'm a bit "green" here and seeking advice from those with more experience.

TIA...

[scot850]

Can't say I have heard of this either. May be worth checking the plastic bearing where the steering column goes through the floor and see if it is loose. I also had a problem with the clamp at the top of the column with the break off bolts coming loose. I had to have the bolts drilled out and replaced and it is tight again.

Neil.

[oragex]

When I read life time warranty on a part, it rings a bell.
Refurbished racks are a hit or miss. Many only replace the rubber boots, and don't replace the worn rack seals.
If it leaks, the seals are shot, perhaps the rack inside is rusted. Most time, the outer dust rubber boot cracks, lets water inside, the rack rod rusts which grinds the seals who start leaking.
Now even if it moves 'up and down' it may or may not affect the geometry that much. But as Scot850, that might mean rack bolts are loose or have sheared threads.
I check the geometry at home We certainly also can adjust the geometry DIY with quite a good deal of success

[cuhfs]

Thanks for the video. Helped me understand.

[sleddriver]

Update
Made an appointment with the original 1st choice recommended by a volvo-only mechanic. They checked the inner tie rod play and said it was miniscule. No worries. After getting the equipment on, he said the front toe was 3X normal. "Snowplowing (skiing) down the road". I'd already noticed the outer edge of the drvr side tire was wearing excessively and unevenly: Smooth when you rub your hand across the edge one way, "notched" or uneven in the opposite direction. These were new tires as of last Sept too.

The rear toe had both wheels pointing to the left, in parallel.

He didn't show me what my car should be set at re: factory specs, instead he sets them up from experience. (Old school guy). So they reset everything, take it for a drive. Ride is rough on the rough road. Then I recall he believes in inflating all tires to 10% below Max sidewall pressure and the tires were already HOT to boot. I drive a couple hundred yards and notice the wheel wasn't straightened (arrrggghhhh). It's down on the left side, so the turn signals didn't click off after making a left turn.....

Back I go....of course, they have to put all the equipment back on it. Takes another 20min or so to dial it in. I stand in the shop and watch. This time the owner takes it for a spin...a longer spin. This time it's centered. He charged more than I thought, even with the -20% off coupon.

It DRIVES much better! I am pleased with the results. Front end vibration now is much less. What remains might be due to my old, aftermarket axles with lots of miles on them now. I still detect a bit of drvr. seat jiggling....I know the LR wheel bearing is a bit noisy. I need to listen more carefully with a stethascope and check the RR.

Back to the first shop refusal to do the work.....

My appointment was for 1 o'clock. I arrived at 1:15 due to a massive traffic jam, about a mile long. So I backtracked and went around. I apologized when I arrived and 10 minutes later they drove the car, then put her on the rack. 20 min. later it's off and I'm given the news "new rack needed". Meanwhile the 2 o'clock appointment shows up at 1:45p, also needing an alignment. I was a new customer, he wasn't. So maybe I got tossed caused the guy was pissed I was late and his 2 o'clock was early. Don't know. I'll have to check this story out with the Volvo indy mentioned above. Red flag warnings are already up!

What do you think?

[JimBee]

The steering wheel movement might be the same as what I'm experiencing on my '96 850 base. It moves up and down a bit with drive torque. I've owned this car for 5 years, put on about 10,000 miles and it has always had that movement. I've discussed it with others on this forum, it's still kind of mysterious.
But, reflecting on this discussion, and comments of one of the shop techs, it might be wear in the worm gear, or a bushing where the steering column goes into the rack body.
Why the movement under torque, as in starting up, or braking at slow speed? I'm guessing, but that could come from torque steer, where one (left?) wheel pulls a little harder than the other, exerting a force of pulling to one side on the steering links, which would try to force the rack to one side. In a tight rack, where there's no slop between the pinion gear and the rack, you don't feel any movement in the steering wheel.
But if the bushing holding the steering shaft and pinion tight in the rack body is worn, or the gears are worn, then when the rack feels torque in one direction, you feel the slack being taken up—or the steering wheel actually rising a bit due to the worn bushing.
If it's not leaking, do you really need to change it? Is it going to fail catastrophically so you would lose steering? What do others think?

[MrPc]

<*...Apologies for temporary thread hijack...*>

JimBee, I recall from a previous thread that you and I had the same clunk, both on '96's. I found and fixed mine--it's dried up grease in the flexible linkage between the steering rack/sub-frame, and the steering wheel/car body. When the subframe bushes flex under differing torque load the flex linkage binds up momentarily and then releases with an up & down clunk feel in the wheel. The main sticking points are the steering column bearing and the telescoping steering column shaft.

The fix is in this thread:

https://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/forums ... 10#p346395

It's coming up on almost 2 clunk-free years....

<* ...back to regularly scheduled thread.... *>

[sleddriver]

Interesting link there MrPC. I need to grease that joint as it's never been done.

[sleddriver]

Discussed this with another Volvo indy today. Replied they might just want to sell you a rack! He said if you can move the inner tie rod up and down and it moves the wheels. Also said if both wheels are off the ground, slide under the front, grab the rear of both tires and pull & push: Nothing should 'clunk' or move. It should all be tight.

I told him my steering wheel vibrates up & down when I start the car with no hands on it. It also bounces up and down over rough roads ~ 40mph. Is that normal? With that said, I do want to add that the metal knee plate & lower trim panel are not installed down below the dash on the driver nor passenger side. Would this cause the steering wheel to shake more? I've been doing so much work up underneath there the past few months, I just left them off.

Also, the sub-frame bushings are now 19yrs old. I asked him if this could cause the steering wheel to move up & down. He said they never replace SFB's. Maybe there is something loose or worn where the steering shaft exits the dash? A worn out bushing, perhaps?

There is no rust on my rack arms; they're clean. Don't remember trying to move the arms up & down when I had the boots & outer tie rods off.

[sleddriver]

Update:
Called the shop back that refused to do the work. Odd that the mechanic I originally spoke to answered the phone....no further information than "your rack is severly worn". When I asked for more detail, he just repeated the same thing in a louder voice. Like I'm deaf! Curious if it's so 'severely worn', he didn't invite me back to show me. Further, why isn't the car unstable at speed? I've driven a truck with a severely worn steering box before...about +-20° in either direction. Downright dangerous.......

I'll check it yet-again next I have the front-end elevated & wheels free. Odd though his insistence it's the rack, not the ITRs. How would he know though? Never bothered to remove the clips on the steering boots to check......