99 S80 T6 need advice on wet plugs

rindress · Post by **rindress** » 04 Jul 2017, 08:32

Hey all,
I'm hoping someone has some ideas on this one. My son purchased this car a while ago. It had been sitting for a while (about 2 yrs) and he did a lot of work to it. He know has it running. However; it still isn't running great. It seems that it's running rich. After driving it a for about 10 miles it's running sluggish and after pulling the plugs they are all wet with fuel. He's replaced the oil trap, no small job, and cleaned out the PCV. I still think there are issues because if you put a latex glove over the oil filler it still inflates. When he first got it he thought the coils were bad so he replaced them. When doing that there was a fair amount of oil on top of the engine, I believe mostly due to the PCV. I've been letting him work on this himself and try and figure things out. He's 17 and I'd say he's got more knowledge than most kids his age when it comes to cars. After getting it running the car was still 'smoking' out the exhaust. The smell to me was fuel so I'd say it's running way to rich. Do you guys think that maybe there is a bad O2 sensor that could be causing this?

Anyway, I was wondering if there are any suggests that you folks have on how to diagnose what might be going on. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Rindress

Post by **June** » 04 Jul 2017, 10:52

One thing for sure, the gas in the tank is bad if it has been sitting two years. I would think draining the tank and try fresh fuel as a minimum place to start. June

rindress · Post by **rindress** » 04 Jul 2017, 13:47

Thanks I did forget to mention that new gas was used (91 octane)

Cees Klumper · Post by **Cees Klumper** » 05 Jul 2017, 01:22

Did he try to read any fault codes? Strange that the glove test still shows pressure.

ThommyKent · Post by **ThommyKent** » 07 Jul 2017, 17:49

Kudos for your son getting his hands dirty. Most just play with their iphone these days and although they aren`t dumb, they don`t know anything. Which in a way is the same thing.

Post by **SuperHerman** » 08 Jul 2017, 19:28

Need more info: What is mileage and what was reason prior owner parked it?

On my old 2004 2.9 NA, I bought it with a blown head gasket. The car originally had HG problems around 25k and at around 80k it finally failed. Many dealer invoices and other shops trying to figure out what was wrong with the car. They all missed the small HG leak until it totally failed. I replaced one set of piston rings and the car ran great. My sister took the car and 5k later it totally died.
Her son-in-law, a mechanic, could not figure out what happened. Almost zero compression in all cylinders. He put in a new used engine and a few thousand miles later the car would not start.

No codes - all looked good. Would not run. After much trouble shooting he found out the Cats were both totally blocked. The bad HG over the life of the car took them out. He replaced them with after market and the car now runs without issues.

So - what I am saying is check your exhaust pressure - maybe you have blocked cats.

Other possibility is when he changed the PCV system he did not clean out the port all the way down through the block into the oil pan. Meaning he still has a clog. I would check them both.

rindress · Post by **rindress** » 25 Jul 2017, 16:30

So an update on where he's at. The compression seems pretty good and pretty close on all the cylinders. It's very possible the Cats are blocked. Is there some way, with a gauge, to check the exhaust pressure?

Anyway he did get it running pretty well but then after it warmed up it was very sluggish and RPM's would drop when stopping, erratic idle, etc. Let it cool down and start it again and it ran fine. So in the process of trying to figure that out he did get some codes, one of which was the camshaft position sensor. So he thought that might be causing his problems. He ordered one (over $200) and installed it. Now that thing wont even start. Seems to crank fine after a few cranks sounds like it's going to catch and then doesn't . I'm totally confused. Is there a way to check the camshaft position sensor so we can tell if that's ok? Any chance that maybe the timing might be off a little?

Any suggestions on what to check next would be very much appreciated. Poor kids is running the gamut on this one.

Post by **SuperHerman** » 26 Jul 2017, 00:39

Yes there is a gauge to check exhaust pressure. I don't own one, seen them demonstrated on YouTube, but they are available.

The symptoms you describe pattern the S80 I referenced displayed. I suppose you could disconnect the cats and see if it runs, although it will throw codes and be rather loud. The better approach would be to take off the cats and physically look at them as it is not much more work - you will know they are clogged once you see them. If I recall you can remove them by bolts - no cutting required - but you may need new hardware. If it has secondary cats, after the front two, which my old 2004 had, check these also for clogs. As these are not metered, I have heard some people delete them and still pass emission tests without issue.

Were it me, I would start out be excluding the cats and then work backwards without trying to start the car. Once the cat issue is addressed visually I would examine the timing as he had it running "pretty well" (although you could do this first). You don't mention that he changed any of the timing components, so they should be set correctly but then maybe he received it improperly timed and/or something failed or moved. You need to look. Line up the crank and the two cam marks - if they are aligned it should run. It may throw a code if the VVT hubs are off, but it will run with the code. You also need to address that PCV system positive pressure. He may have to go back in and clean out the ports that go into the engine. After this I would start my game plan - these are all cost free but labor intensive.

rindress · Post by **rindress** » 26 Jul 2017, 13:27

Thanks so much for your response. He certainly understands the 'labor intensive' part

. I forgot to mention in my last reply that he did take the PVC all apart again, which on the 99 getting that bracket off with everything on it is a B&$ch. He did clean the port, which was plugged and the PCV seems pretty good now. It's not sucking the glove down hard but it's certainly not inflated. He did have it running and test drove it after doing that. It was at that point he was able to get the codes and started to think it was the camshaft position sensor.

I think next might be the timing since getting the cat's off where it sits would be difficult and timing would be easier.

Thanks again!

Post by **SuperHerman** » 26 Jul 2017, 22:01

I agree checking the timing would be a good first step. Remove wheel, take off upper timing cover, peel back corner splash panel - rotate engine to align marks and see what you find. I think if they line up the only potential issue would be the VVT hub(s) were not backed off if the timing belt was replaced. You would get a code for this.

Do you know any history on the timing belt? Does it look brand new?