Old School Mechanic Please

[ladydamascus]

I am looking for a reputable old school mechanic that knows how to do something other than use a code scanner. Back in the day mechanics would check wires and perform routine tests without the use of a scanner for everything. The result, we saved money and our cars were spot on. I am sick of being told something has to be replaced based on a code, even by dealers. I had a MAF replaced. Two weeks later was told I needed a vacuum hose, then a week later PVC replaced when light came back on. Then oil pan dropped. Then another new MAF because the old one had been compromised. But after I pointed out they should have been done at the same time, they were able to clean it. Two days later, car almost shut off. No check engine light, but still coding P0101. I like my mechanics, but sheesh! Where are the old school guys?

[cuhfs]

They Retired.

[oragex]

Try to detail the problem here, you may find someone who had a similar issue, but it is true that for many problems (such as an engine stall) it is really hard to figure out from a distance.

May also look on local.google.com for a knowledgeable independent Volvo mechanic, the site has user rating.

Local classifieds may have Volvo technicians who work from home in their spare time. This can be very useful if they are honest.

Finally, when replacing a part, for some parts it is critical to be original Volvo ones, the MAF is such example. Used ones but originals, from Ebay are not expensive and may still be good.

[RickHaleParker]

They put the educated ones out to pasture early and won't hire them again. They worked too dam fast and don't make enough mistakes. That resulted in less hours to bill and less parts sold. It is part of the campaign to dumb down America.


I like my mechanics, but sheesh! Where are the old school guys?

You like him as a person but not as a grease monkey .... mechanic would of done as you said, got it all done on the first trip, at least most of it.

Because it is the only code she got, this would be an easy fix. A good backyard mechanic could do it.

Possible source

• Faulty signal
  Air leakage in the intake system.
  Contaminated throttle disc.
  Blocked crankcase ventilation.
  Damaged mass air flow (MAF) sensor.
  Contact resistance in the connectors.
  Damaged fresh air intake hose.

[cn90]

I bet you money it is a $5 fix.
All you need is a can of Carb/Throttle Cleaner (about $5 at auto parts store).

I had the exact same code and went through the exercise of MAF etc. Only to find out it was a dirty throttle body.
The fix is very easy, just read the DIY below...


DIY: 2005 XC90 2.5T Throttle Body Cleaning
viewtopic.php?t=78629

[mrbrian200]

My 2 cents:
It's because modern vehicles past mid-late 1990s have become very complex 'engineering marvels'. To wrap your head around what's going between various interacting systems dictates the equivalent knowledge of multiple engineering degrees. A two year AS doesn't get you there. Those that are smart and dedicated enough to self teach substantially beyond that level tend to migrate toward heavy vehicles/machinery..oh hell even an elevator technician makes more... because it pays 2-4x more than working on soccer mom passenger vehicles. Compounding matters...new car sales have become so competitive that dealers aren't really making money selling cars anymore -- revenue from the service department supports the whole operation. There really isn't $ left to hike tech salaries enough to attract and retain the smartest ones. The college I went to offered a 2 year AS in auto mechanics. I had a roomate one semester... you know where this is going... that was a was in it. That circle didn't exactly strike me as the cream of the crop. On the other side of the coin, one of my good friends Jim was taking prerequisites to get into engineering school/aviation mechanical engineering. Met a few of his study partners in that area. Yes I said study partners. Plural. Studying. Non stop. Even on weekends when most of the rest of campus was out getting trashed, these guys were like med students. But he was looking at a starting salary after 6-8 years of college around $150-200k...back in 1990.
Those 'old school mechanics' you speak of...date back to when vehicles were far less complicated. But they're still around. The current batch of techs holding a 2 year AS (if they weren't junkies/learned/got good grades) are at that level. The problem is they're not usually working on a 1978 El Camino. You hand them the keys to a ~2005+ VolvaudicadillHozda with something genuinely funky going on and most of them are in over their heads. As would be most of those old guys you remember from back in the day.

[June]

My 2 cents:
It's because modern vehicles past mid-late 1990s have become very complex 'engineering marvels'. To wrap your head around what's going between various interacting systems dictates the equivalent knowledge of multiple engineering degrees. A two year AS doesn't get you there. Those that are smart and dedicated enough to self teach substantially beyond that level tend to migrate toward heavy vehicles/machinery..oh hell even an elevator technician makes more... because it pays 2-4x more than working on soccer mom passenger vehicles. Compounding matters...new car sales have become so competitive that dealers aren't really making money selling cars anymore -- revenue from the service department supports the whole operation. There really isn't $ left to hike tech salaries enough to attract and retain the smartest ones. The college I went to offered a 2 year AS in auto mechanics. I had a roomate one semester... you know where this is going... that was a was in it. That circle didn't exactly strike me as the cream of the crop. On the other side of the coin, one of my good friends Jim was taking prerequisites to get into engineering school/aviation mechanical engineering. Met a few of his study partners in that area. Yes I said study partners. Plural. Studying. Non stop. Even on weekends when most of the rest of campus was out getting trashed, these guys were like med students. But he was looking at a starting salary after 6-8 years of college around $150-200k...back in 1990.
Those 'old school mechanics' you speak of...date back to when vehicles were far less complicated. But they're still around. The current batch of techs holding a 2 year AS (if they weren't junkies/learned/got good grades) are at that level. The problem is they're not usually working on a 1978 El Camino. You hand them the keys to a ~2005+ VolvaudicadillHozda with something genuinely funky going on and most of them are in over their heads. As would be most of those old guys you remember from back in the day.

+1 you're spot on! I stick with the dealer as they know my car best and pretty much have seen it all and have all the correct hardware and software plus factory parts and these days a lifetime warranty on parts and labor. June

[FLXC90]

I bet you money it is a $5 fix.
All you need is a can of Carb/Throttle Cleaner (about $5 at auto parts store).

I had the exact same code and went through the exercise of MAF etc. Only to find out it was a dirty throttle body.
The fix is very easy, just read the DIY below...


DIY: 2005 XC90 2.5T Throttle Body Cleaning
viewtopic.php?t=78629

This strikes me as funny; This was the first thing my local indy-former dealer mechanic told me to do on my 04 T6. (well-first thing after replacing the trans!) And he is an old-school guy trained to modern diagnostics via a scanner.

Good call, Cam

[cn90]

The problem is not old-school or new-school.

The problem is in the education of young mechanics. The focus is so much on "technology": computers, sensors, software etc. etc.

But a good mechanic is the one that has common-sense, and reads forums. Seriously, forums are a collection of experience, wisdom of years of experience by so many people from so many different backgrounds.

Dealer mechanics are paid by the hour, the more screw-up, they make more money. Plus, there is no incentive to get better inside a dealership.

In contrast, the independent mechanics go by reputation, the more successful repair ---> good words of mouth (or positive google review, or Yelp reviews) ---> they make more money.

So, an indy mechanic is more likely to read forum to further his education, if at all.

The contributors in this forum have a different goals, many of us contributors are just regular Jacks and Joes, but have an interest in fixing their vehicles to save $. Oh, and we use common-sense approach...

[mrbrian200]

Another 2 cents..
Techs at a dealer are more likely to have encountered a specific problem and know what to do, but not always. Volume dealers in major cities are somewhat better positioned to attract and retain techs with a higher skill level. Thus better suited to rare/less known 'funky' issues. Again, not always.

I sense one of the car industry's larger problems, particularly as newer models have entered the realm of 'modern marvels', has to do with brand consistency, specifically regarding service, across various dealer locations.

It's not good enough that a dealer merely has access to technical documentation and (probably?) the option to consult a very highly trained engineer employed by the OE when a problem vehicle is encountered. I propose those engineers aren't optional: If at first you don't succeed, the franchise/dealership agreement needs to require that a highly trained engineer get involved.

Like large food chains set up around regional districts which have people whose job is to interact with individual locations to find and resolve issues in person when necessary, OEs need to employ a substantive number of, ahem, highly paid expert field engineers. I'm sure VCNA has a some already. But I suspect they're primarily concerned with failures on new models, recurring defects, or unusual collision damage (they're fact finding free of charge to the dealer). No, this small army finds and fixes problems on any car new or old, that for whatever reason, dealer techs didn't solve on the first try.

So.. 99%+ of vehicles coming in for service to a dealer gets fixed right up and dealer takes that normal revenue. That 1/2 a percent or less with some strange issue techs can't seem figure out -- you're gonna lose that customer anyway. They'll get tired of getting charged, but not fixed, and go somewhere else likely never to come back, or dump the vehicle and NOT consider buying another. So you call in a district field engineer to figure it out. The dealer collects, but forwards, that particular service revenue past the initial first attempt.

Save the customer. Maintain brand reputation. In smaller markets where word of mouth is king, this could amount to make or break. The first OE who really gets a solid handle on this is going to win big with car buyers. It's not instant gratification. Brand reputation regarding quality and service takes years to build with a necessary foundation of quality vehicles. Service needs to be consistent at every single dealership worldwide. If Geely's plans really is Chinese style long term brand building...some sort of arrangement along these lines needs to be part of that plan.

The first major franchise operator who recognized the importance of consistency and nailed it down good is a name/company every single one of us is familiar with: Ray Crock, Mcdonalds. And yes, 99.999% of the concepts that apply to building a successful worldwide food chain also absolutely applies to car sales and dealer franchising.

Maybe this is one of the aspects Volvo is getting at, in a roundabout manner, with the 'Care by Volvo' subscription model. If a specific vehicle turns problem child, just exchange it for a different one at no additional cost. Trouble and cost of diagnosis is isolated from the customer. I'm just not sure how popular Care by Volvo will be here in the states outside of major city centers. For those who opt for traditional ownership there still needs to be a solid game plan to address consistency of service across every single dealership worldwide.
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End of 2 cents. Oh. I seem to have written another essay. That's 3 in one day, or 6c? I must be dog sitting for my friend. If you come across any of my comments left on huffpo today be careful. There's one that might lure you in with thoughtful sounding conjecture at the beginning but you'll probably need an umbrella for a bamboozle of adjectives and bat guano at the end.