Valve Train Noise

hcritz · Post by **hcritz** » 10 Dec 2007, 13:53

Hello All...
New poster here...
I have a 95 turbo wagon that has been amazing, but has over 300,000 miles on it now...I do a lot of long distance travel and was starting to worry about a long distance breakdown, so I just bought a 2000 V70 turbo...very clean 1 owner...dealer maintained.
The new car has a LOT louder valve train noise that my old one. In doing a bit of investigation...I found that the bottom side of the cam lobes isn't even touching the lifter buckets. This is obvious from the fact that there is a normal amount of varnish build-up that's about the same as the rest of the engine under the valve cover. This tells me that the conditions probably has existed since new...and that maybe there is something blocking the oil passage for the hydraulic lifters??? Was there a change to the engine to increase the valve clearance??? doesn't sound logical to me.
Just wondering if this is normal...it obviously hasn't caused any damage...the cam lobes look fine at their high points...and they seem to be lubing well.
It would seem that the dealership would have noticed the noise and followed up on it when the car was new. I talked to the original owner and she said the car had never had anything done other than the routine maint.
Any insight on this would be appreciated!
Thanks...
ED

bobsnow100 · Post by **bobsnow100** » 10 Dec 2007, 17:18

Could be the hydrolic lifters are stuck or collasped.

hcritz · Post by **hcritz** » 10 Dec 2007, 20:26

I'm guessing the lifters are not torking, but I think this has been the case since new...maybe an oil port wasn't drilled or a hole in a gasket not punched.

bobsnow100 · Post by **bobsnow100** » 10 Dec 2007, 20:56

The lifters have an oil prime in them and if the seal in the lifter is bad the hydrolic aspect of it doesn't work and will cause your valve noise. This should be fixed because the valves will be slamming against the valve seats and can break if it being dampened by the lifters

hcritz · Post by **hcritz** » 11 Dec 2007, 14:02

hey bob...
Yep...definitely valve lash noise...we aren't talking clatter here....it just sounds like a set of non-hydraulic valves that are (properly) adjusted.
It is also ALL the lifter from the sound...so doubtful that they are all stuck.
The oil changes were done on time by the dealer before I purchased the car.
The base circle of the cam that you can see through the oil fill is covered with varnish...so it's not contacting the lifter bucket. I may see if I can get one of my angled feeler guages in there and see what the clearance is...I'm guessing just a few thousandths.
The 850 has the normal shiny surface all the way around the cam lobe.
I'm guessing this has been this way since new (120,000 now).
I've never had one of these heads off...so I don't know how the oil feed is taken to the hydraulic part of the lifter...of course the cams seem to be well oiled...there's no unusual wear on the lobes.
It's really not a problem...I'm just curious! I'm guessing that there is an oil passage not drilled or a port in a gasket not open.

Post by **MadeInJapan** » 11 Dec 2007, 14:42

I'm thinking the oil pump o-ring(s) are bad in at the bottom of the oil pan. You should definitely get this looked at and corrected ASAP. Eventually your engine will break. I also suspect sludge in the bottom of your oil pan from lack of it being pumped up to the top of the engine.

hcritz · Post by **hcritz** » 11 Dec 2007, 14:52

Oil pressure is OK...light goes out instantly on crankup. no unusual noises from the lower end of the engine...
I don't think there is any sludge buildup...there is only a light varnish coating inside the valve cover. It looks very clean for 120K miles.
Does anyone know how the lifters recieve presurised oil? Must be a passage in the head somewhere.

hcritz · Post by **hcritz** » 11 Dec 2007, 14:57

Hey Japan...
On a side note...
There seems to be plenty of oil being pumped to the head...the cams are running in a pretty good oil bath.

Post by **MadeInJapan** » 11 Dec 2007, 16:01

Thanks for the clarification....I just knew of someone who complained of similar symptoms as you and it was as I stated. Good to know that the lower end is fine. I really don't know of an answer for you, but there shouldn't be much noise at the top like you have and so you might be correct in your hypothesis that something is either plugged or never "unplugged" to begin with. I hope you find your answer.

Post by **pfeener** » 11 Dec 2007, 18:47

Call me crazy, but I seem to remember a post a while back talking about Volvo installing solid lifters in some cars around your model year. Also if you examine the symptoms and observations you're having, it sounds just like you have a set of solid lifters and a solid lifter cam. If you had hydraulic lifters and they had all collapsed, the knocking would be so loud you wouldn't be able to stand it. Couple that with the varnish on the low side of all the cams which is consistent with a solid lifter cam ad I think there's a good chance you have a solid lifter setup. If I were you, I would explore this possibility before I did any work to try and "correct" the problem.